Underletting in a single vessel

[kadmium]

Hey guys. So I'm trying to incorporate a new step in my process. I have a Guten 40 but believe it would be the same on the brewzilla / robobrew.

Does anyone underlet their grain? I'm thinking of milling straight into the malt pipe, and then lowering it into the strike water. I've seen some good things on lowering oxygen, and decreasing dough balls.

My worry is the bottom screen pops up and then malt flows into everywhere.

Anyone have thoughts? Just wanna know if its crazy or been done before.

 

[butisitart]

Hey guys. So I'm trying to incorporate a new step in my process. I have a Guten 40 but believe it would be the same on the brewzilla / robobrew.

Does anyone underlet their grain? I'm thinking of milling straight into the malt pipe, and then lowering it into the strike water. I've seen some good things on lowering oxygen, and decreasing dough balls.

My worry is the bottom screen pops up and then malt flows into everywhere.

Anyone have thoughts? Just wanna know if its crazy or been done before.

new vocab to me - underlet the grain??
if you're suggesting what i think you're suggesting, then i would have to ask how much oxygen would reduce ;compared to if you milled into a bucket and tipped it in straight after - are we getting into the realms of barista management where every second counts??
not sure where you're going, just curious

 

[butisitart]

oh, got underletting, from the oxford companion to beer. didn't even know that existed LOL.
ok, re-read.
no, still doesn't make sense to my take on the situation.
not sure why you'd mill straight into the mash pipe

 

[kadmium]

Mill straight into the pipe to avoid pouring it over a few times, this losing some of the flour and also makes life simpler.

Then lower the malt pipe full of grain slowly into the water, which underlets the grain. One advantage is lower oxygen issues, not really why I'm doing it but every little thing helps.

Mainly it reduces doughballs and also don't have to pour, stop, stir, pour, stop, stir etc

 

[Fro-Daddy]

The heat/moisture from the kettle might gum up the rollers if you have the mill over the top?

 

[Nullnvoid]

I agree with what Fro-Daddy says. I feel you will run into more problems.

I underlet, but I put the milled grain into the mash tun and then fill up with the required water. However this is on a 3v system, so YMMV

 

[kadmium]

Sorry I should have been more pacific. I wouldn't mill into the malt pipe over the kettle!

I would mill into the maltpipe sitting outside on the deck. Then carry to guten and lower it in.

I could only imagine the mess milling over a hot steamy environment would create!

 

[sp0rk]

You said you want to avoid loss of flour
I feel like milling over the deck is going to lead to a bunch of flour on the deck...
Honestly at this point in the brewing process, I feel like oxygen is not a problem (HSA myth, etc)
I brew in a 50L Guten and full volume mash with a good handful of rice hulls in every batch, I don't really seem to get any dough balls, ymmv
My mill is mounted to a MDF board, I mill into a bucket, tip the bucket into the lowered malt pipe while stirring and this has always seemed to work well
I always used this same procedure with BIAB too

 

[butisitart]

Mill straight into the pipe to avoid pouring it over a few times, this losing some of the flour and also makes life simpler.

Then lower the malt pipe full of grain slowly into the water, which underlets the grain. One advantage is lower oxygen issues, not really why I'm doing it but every little thing helps.

Mainly it reduces doughballs and also don't have to pour, stop, stir, pour, stop, stir etc

ah, got it. i might actually give that a whirl next time i do a large grain-bill to see how it goes. sometimes get slow retriculation if you overdo it in a gf.
although i don't seem to get issues with doughballs, but the backflip to that is,
if you're underletting, would doughballs be a bigger potential issue than if you are adding and stirring conventionally? cos i would've thought it would be harder to locate them

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

If you mash in at a lower temp, say 40 or 50 C you won't get dough balls and you will get a bit of a protien rest as you raise to mashing temps.

I generally have my strike water at 58 or 59 so the temp drops to 54 when I drop the goods in

 

[kadmium]

Holy moly. I will mill into my malt pipe, which is in a bucket, on my deck outside. Not sure the exact colour of the deck, think its inter grain natural. Also, the bucket is an old fermenter if that helps?

I'm not asking about specifics of where to mill my grain. I'm asking about underletting in a single vessel system and if anyone has had issues with the bottom screen rising up.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Holy moly. I will mill into my malt pipe, which is in a bucket, on my deck outside. Not sure the exact colour of the deck, think its inter grain natural. Also, the bucket is an old fermenter if that helps?

I'm not asking about specifics of where to mill my grain. I'm asking about underletting in a single vessel system and if anyone has had issues with the bottom screen rising up.

What colour is the bucket? Is your mill facing north south? I have tried using mine east west and haven't had very good results.

Sorry. Apart from those helpful hings, I haven't brewed on a single vessel system like the Guten or Brewzilla so I'll just back away into a corner.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I think if you lowered it slow enough, the screen wouldn't lift. There are a few people on 'other' forums that do LODO now who may be able to assist.
Do you have a pulley or will you be lowering it by hand?

 

[butisitart]

Holy moly. I will mill into my malt pipe, which is in a bucket, on my deck outside. Not sure the exact colour of the deck, think its inter grain natural. Also, the bucket is an old fermenter if that helps?

I'm not asking about specifics of where to mill my grain. I'm asking about underletting in a single vessel system and if anyone has had issues with the bottom screen rising up.

no. no problems with underletting, cos i'd never heard of it.
don't suppose you've tried milling with a proper dedicated bucket, you know, like, it's already a bucket when you buy it.
my guess is that eg 6kg grainbill weighs, well, about 6 kg, so if you do things gently, i wouldn't think that the bottom screen or grain would float (rise up) easily with 6kg bearing down on it. and the density will increase rapidly when water gets in there. let us know how it goes, it would actually be easier than conventional loading, and reduce the grain dust in the air that you get.
ps, edit here, after running through mentally, if you think the bottom screen feels insecure, a short sharp lift of the malt pipe should jag it back to the floor of the pipe. like fishing.

 

[kadmium]

Hahahah. Fair play everyone.

Thanks for help, I was a little ambiguous so was just having a laugh. Hard to convey my sarcastic humour over text!!

I do appreciate the suggestions and I will be a guinea pig!

Essentially I plan on:

Put malt pipe into bucket.

Mill into it, to avoid pouring from bucket into pipe when I reckon I can mill straight into pipe.

Slowly lower pipe by hand into water. Found a video on You Tube by Saffer Brew who does this, and it looks pretty good. Just seems like a simpler way of getting the grain wet, and I'm a simple man so simple is good. Unless it HAS to be complex.

Appreciate all the help gents, and when I get around to it, will post an update. I don't have my mill yet, but my next brew is crushed and ready to go so I will try the underletting and let you know how it goes in this post.

 

[butisitart]

Hahahah. Fair play everyone.

Thanks for help, I was a little ambiguous so was just having a laugh. Hard to convey my sarcastic humour over text!!

I do appreciate the suggestions and I will be a guinea pig!

Essentially I plan on:

Put malt pipe into bucket.

Mill into it, to avoid pouring from bucket into pipe when I reckon I can mill straight into pipe.

Slowly lower pipe by hand into water. Found a video on You Tube by Saffer Brew who does this, and it looks pretty good. Just seems like a simpler way of getting the grain wet, and I'm a simple man so simple is good. Unless it HAS to be complex.

Appreciate all the help gents, and when I get around to it, will post an update. I don't have my mill yet, but my next brew is crushed and ready to go so I will try the underletting and let you know how it goes in this post.

i just thought of one thing though, flaked barley/oats/wheat.
i always stir that into the dry milled in smallish quantities while i'm loading, so i don't get a football sized glutinous gob in the middle of the mash pipe. would mean a stop start milling while you added flakes.

 

[contrarian]

Couldn't you actually underlet water into you 1V system by milling the grain, putting it into place and then filling the water from the tap that you drain it from. You could do this with tap temperature water and then heat up gradually to your desired mash temp. The colour or orientation of a bucket wouldn't be an issue here.

 

[sp0rk]

Couldn't you actually underlet water into you 1V system by milling the grain, putting it into place and then filling the water from the tap that you drain it from. You could do this with tap temperature water and then heat up gradually to your desired mash temp. The colour or orientation of a bucket wouldn't be an issue here.

I'd guess you'd have to pump it in, and you'd need a strong-ish pump for that

 

[butisitart]

Couldn't you actually underlet water into you 1V system by milling the grain, putting it into place and then filling the water from the tap that you drain it from. You could do this with tap temperature water and then heat up gradually to your desired mash temp. The colour or orientation of a bucket wouldn't be an issue here.

thought of that, cos that would be perfect, but to get the right mash water measured in e.g. gf, you need to load water first, otherwise it's a sight guess, which i'm not great at.
i agree with bucket orientation, but green buckets let bad light into the grain, much like grolsch bottles. you'd have to wrap bucket in a big paper bag

 

[kadmium]

Hahaha. I also don't like protein rests on modern malts. So cold water mashing is a huge no for me haha.

I'll give it a go and see what happens!