Temperature For Pitching Yeast

[hobartbrewer]

This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.

I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?

Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.

 

[jammer]

This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.

I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?

Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.

Wow, that's warm. I pitch at around 20-22. You'll find you'll get lots of esters (off flavours ) at that temp. And bread yeast, is ummm, less than desirable... But you know, desperate times and all....

 

[sp0rk]

Because anything over about 23C starts creating esters, buttery tastes and other undesirables that will make your brew taste generally nasty
yeast won't "die" (sleep) usually until much lower temps, around 9C atleast for lager yeasts
use the search function, you'll find a whole bunch of threads on this topic

 

[sp0rk]

Also, sourcing yeast in Tassie isn't hard, infact here is a list of brew shops down your way (and these are just brew cellar stockists, i'm sure there are many more)


Brew By You
51b Main Road , MOONAH TAS 7009, AU | 03 6278 3881 |

King Island IGA
Everyday Main Street , CURRIE TAS 7256, AU | 03 6462 1244 |

Legana Plants Plus
717 West Tamar Highway , LEGANA TAS 7277, AU | 03 6330 1177 |

Mac's Liquidation Store
46 Emmett Street , SMITHTON TAS 7330, AU | 03 6452 3468 |

Northern Home Brewing
Unit 7/2 Elphin Road , LAUNCESTON TAS 7250, AU | 03 6334 0081 |

Penguin Fruit and Veg
86 Main Street , PENGUIN TAS 7316, AU | 03 6437 1110 |

Tasmanian Homebrew Supplies
222 Liverpool Street , HOBART TAS 7000, AU | 03 6243 6230 |

There is also the site sponsors who'll ship to you for fairly cheap

 

[hobartbrewer]

Wow, that's warm. I pitch at around 20-22. You'll find you'll get lots of esters (off flavours ) at that temp. And bread yeast, is ummm, less than desirable... But you know, desperate times and all....

Well I put them in at 40 and it would have got down to 25ish within a few hours I'm guessing. I noticed the CO2 dropped for about 6 hours later the next day , I'm guessing that's the yeast switching from aerobic to anaerobic and now it's at a steady once per 5 seconds.

 

[hobartbrewer]

Also, sourcing yeast in Tassie isn't hard, infact here is a list of brew shops down your way (and these are just brew cellar stockists, i'm sure there are many more)


Brew By You
51b Main Road , MOONAH TAS 7009, AU | 03 6278 3881 |

King Island IGA
Everyday Main Street , CURRIE TAS 7256, AU | 03 6462 1244 |

Legana Plants Plus
717 West Tamar Highway , LEGANA TAS 7277, AU | 03 6330 1177 |

Mac's Liquidation Store
46 Emmett Street , SMITHTON TAS 7330, AU | 03 6452 3468 |

Northern Home Brewing
Unit 7/2 Elphin Road , LAUNCESTON TAS 7250, AU | 03 6334 0081 |

Penguin Fruit and Veg
86 Main Street , PENGUIN TAS 7316, AU | 03 6437 1110 |

Tasmanian Homebrew Supplies
222 Liverpool Street , HOBART TAS 7000, AU | 03 6243 6230 |

There is also the site sponsors who'll ship to you for fairly cheap

Thanks for the list. I sort of had the motivation to do a brew on that day and I live about 30 clicks from Hobart, so sourcing anything late in the day is hard unless it comes from Woolworths. I'm going into a store before the next one to find some champagne yeast, probably EC-1118. I've mostly only done homebrew beer before.

 

[hobartbrewer]

Because anything over about 23C starts creating esters, buttery tastes and other undesirables that will make your brew taste generally nasty
yeast won't "die" (sleep) usually until much lower temps, around 9C atleast for lager yeasts
use the search function, you'll find a whole bunch of threads on this topic

Ok that does sound bad. On my initial searching I found people talking about the actual fermentation process being too high causing issues but couldn't find much on the initial "pitch". Given the speed the yeast kicked into life at 40C I'm wondering if there is a positive in having it slightly high initially to get things kick started or if it's going to turn out as bad as you say.

I'm also guessing the temperature of the undesirables must depend somewhat on the actual yeast used too? Starting off with bakers yeast is already going to be interesting let alone the other things I've done "Wrong".

 

[bignath]

This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.

I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?

Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.

You used 6.5kg of sugar in 21lt's, then pitched bakers yeast when it was at 40deg?
****.......that's gonna taste nasty.

Given the speed the yeast kicked into life at 40C I'm wondering if there is a positive in having it slightly high initially to get things kick started or if it's going to turn out as bad as you say.

When we (brewers) talk about pitching slightly high, we usually mean only a couple of degrees higher than intended fermentation temp. Not a bad practise, as it probably does kick it off a tad quicker, but it needs to be brought down quite quick. For the record, i don't do this, but several brewers do. The difference with only a couple of degrees can be significant to the end result of the beer, depending on the actual yeast of course.
Pitching anything at 40deg is not "slightly high", it's ridiculous...

Without me sounding like a prick, i think you need to stop brewing and read a whole lot more before resuming.

And i'd be tipping whats in your fermenter out now if it was me.

I'm usually quite a kind and considerate person, but what you've described in your process just blows my mind.

 

[GalBrew]

This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.

I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?

Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.

Yeah, bakers yeast, 40deg pitch and 6.5kg sugar. It is not going to end well. That being said I would ferment it out as an experiment, read up and see what faults these conditions may result in and see what faults you can actually detect in it. Should be an interesting learning experience.

 

[hobartbrewer]

Yeah, bakers yeast, 40deg pitch and 6.5kg sugar. It is not going to end well. That being said I would ferment it out as an experiment, read up and see what faults these conditions may result in and see what faults you can actually detect in it. Should be an interesting learning experience.

Hey... maybe they used EC1118 in the bakers yeast at woolworths by mistake.... :lol:

Yeah it is a learning experience. I don't mind if the batch is blown, I like the process more than anything. I tasted the syrup before putting the air lock on and it was quite nice and very sugary. Even if the bakers yeast only burns through half the sugar I think it may match non alcoholic ginger beer in sugar content (just guessing) which should make it enjoyable... unless the off flavours from the 40C start ruin it.

 

[hobartbrewer]

You used 6.5kg of sugar in 21lt's, then pitched bakers yeast when it was at 40deg?
****.......that's gonna taste nasty.

When we (brewers) talk about pitching slightly high, we usually mean only a couple of degrees higher than intended fermentation temp. Not a bad practise, as it probably does kick it off a tad quicker, but it needs to be brought down quite quick. For the record, i don't do this, but several brewers do. The difference with only a couple of degrees can be significant to the end result of the beer, depending on the actual yeast of course.
Pitching anything at 40deg is not "slightly high", it's ridiculous...

Without me sounding like a prick, i think you need to stop brewing and read a whole lot more before resuming.

And i'd be tipping whats in your fermenter out now if it was me.

I'm usually quite a kind and considerate person, but what you've described in your process just blows my mind.

Well I already know a fair amount about brewing, but I am always eager to learn new things and see what other experienced folk have done. The 40C pitch was just because I wanted to go to bed and couldn't wait anymore, I don't really see what the harm is if I ruined the batch because of it? It's just time and a little money, learning is priceless, or something. I was eager to see if anyone else had pitched so high and the results they had. The fact there are a few different variables here (high sugar, bakers yeast, high pitch) probably mean I'll just have to wait and see regardless.

 

[sp0rk]

pitching at 40C, using 6.5kg of sugar when 3 is MORE than enough , using bakers yeast and not worrying about time or money wasted on something that would have been better spent reading a little on how to make a really cracker ginger beer does seem to me like you're not really down with the brewing game yet mate
spend a good amount of time reading the site, the knowledge here is priceless
i spend a good amount of time each week just reading wiki articles and people's views on techniques
all that reading over the last 2 years has already won me a first prize for one of my beers at the local show...

 

[Droughtmaster]

are u sure u aint in jail and have some internet access .
who the hell would use brewers yeast apart from ya great great grandfathers.
i just asking the question

 

[Droughtmaster]

bakers yeast

 

[hobartbrewer]

are u sure u aint in jail and have some internet access .
who the hell would use brewers yeast apart from ya great great grandfathers.
i just asking the question

Nothin wrong with asking questions! All I had at the time was bakers yeast and from the research I did there seemed to be many people who had success with it so I thought why not.

I'd love to have a sterile lab, multiple fermenting vessels, CO2 injection, etc but I don't so I just make do with what I got, just like with the bakers yeast. Just like our great granddaddys

I do have some wine yeast now, though I'm not sure what strain. I'll try it out next time.

 

[hobartbrewer]

pitching at 40C, using 6.5kg of sugar when 3 is MORE than enough , using bakers yeast and not worrying about time or money wasted on something that would have been better spent reading a little on how to make a really cracker ginger beer does seem to me like you're not really down with the brewing game yet mate
spend a good amount of time reading the site, the knowledge here is priceless
i spend a good amount of time each week just reading wiki articles and people's views on techniques
all that reading over the last 2 years has already won me a first prize for one of my beers at the local show...

I wanted ginger beer with ABV of 13-15% so 3KG of sugar isn't enough to deliver that. I'm not sure if you'd call what I'm making "ginger wine" in that case, I just go with the term ginger beer because that's what I'm used to. Perhaps it's a bit ignorant of me.

And I agree this site is great and I'm not saying you aren't right about the 40C pitch ruining the whole thing. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can even if its not optimal and this ginger beer of mine was certainly that. I wanted to get it done that day and I made it happen but I also had to make compromises. So we'll see in a couple days when I open it whether it's turned into an acetone bomb or whatever I guess. I still have faith!

 

[Lakey]

I guess. I still have faith!
[/quote]
Well pray for a miracle caus :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:

 

[hobartbrewer]

I guess. I still have faith!

Well pray for a miracle caus :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:

I'm wrapped in rosemary beads at the moment! A couple years back I attempted a ginger beer brew and it was way too spicey and took 3 or 4 weeks to ferment. I drank some of it but it was very hard to touch and most of it went down the drain.

This time I'm more hopeful because the syrup before closing the fermenting vessel was extremely nice with just the right amount of ginger kick and lemon acid feel.

Would I be able to smell any off smells, esters, etc in the room it is fermenting? Would some escape as gas when the CO2 does?

 

[bignath]

A couple years back I attempted a ginger beer brew and it was way too spicey and took 3 or 4 weeks to ferment. I drank some of it but it was very hard to touch and most of it went down the drain.

If you've been brewing for "a couple of years", i fail to understand your sentiments in above posts that we have to make do with what we have etc....

that's just complete crap.

If you've been around this game for that length of time, then that's more than long enough to know about yeast's designed for beverage production, and if you don't have a fridge or other way to keep your ferment temps down, use a big storage crate filled with water and put your fermenter in that.




I'm starting to get the feeling we may be getting the wool pulled over our eyes ahb'ers...

 

[hobartbrewer]

If you've been brewing for "a couple of years", i fail to understand your sentiments in above posts that we have to make do with what we have etc....

that's just complete crap.

It's complete crap I only have the bare essentials to ferment and bottle? Ok.... I'm not going to say that I'm the most dedicated or experienced brewer out there because I am far from it. I brew for fun time to time and haven't really become obsessed with it just yet. I like it because I like making things from scratch and I like the idea of self sufficiency.

If you've been around this game for that length of time, then that's more than long enough to know about yeast's designed for beverage production, and if you don't have a fridge or other way to keep your ferment temps down, use a big storage crate filled with water and put your fermenter in that.

I'm starting to get the feeling we may be getting the wool pulled over our eyes ahb'ers...

Plenty of people brew with bakers yeast, do a google search on it. People even use wild yeast. I'm not sure what wool I'm trying to pull over anyones eyes. I wanted to know if anyone had pitched at 40C before and what had happened. There is no conspiracy here fella.