Temperature For Pitching Yeast

[Rowy]

Another greeny from the mendicant state! Generate some employment and dollars down there and we'll send you some yeast! Better still scrape the yeast from Bobby Browns boyfriends tailbone and use that :angry: Self sufficiency is a two way street.!

 

[labels]

Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.

In the old days, ginger beer was traditionally a home brewed beverage using bakers yeast. Generally, baker yeast has a low tolerence to alcohol so the alcohol content will end quite low and you will end up with a sweet ginger beer much like the old stuff, closer to a soft drink which is probably what you're looking for.

The others are correct in saying a lot of undesirable fermentation by-products are produced by fermenting too warm however, as the alcohol will most probably end up quite low, so to will the fermentation by-products.

It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.

Steve

 

[bignath]

Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.

I would have less of a problem considering that as a scenario. I know you mainly brew lagers, i am under the assumption that you are very good at them, judging by your other posts, so i have no qualms with 30deg followed by a rapid cooling.
But the level of control you would have over your rig compared to the op's setup means the product produced by pitching at 40deg cause he got lazy and couldn't be arsed waiting any longer will be vastly different.

.....snip....


It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.

unnacceptable vitriolic responses to a simple question? He got his answer to his question in earlier posts.

He was also directed to multiple stores that should have better/more appropriate products for him to use to assist in creating a better product.
He's coming across as though he couldn't give a **** about the potential problems he's about to have. That's naturally going to annoy people on a forum dedicated to doing what he's doing - fermenting.
Im not expecting him to be the most dedicated brewer on the planet with all the flashest equipment, but it's not hard to invest $6 in a cheap plastic storage crate to ferment in and use some quality yeast from one of the suggested stores.

Nath

 

[np1962]

I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.

 

[Spork]

I wonder if the OP has an Indian friend who makes pishab?

 

[Guysmiley54]

+1 for reals!!

This is very dangerous mate. I'm in Hobart too and Amanda at the shop in Liverpool Street can give you enough advice to help you in the future. Experiments can be fun but safety is no laughing matter.

I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.

 

[hobartbrewer]

I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.

Thanks for the advice. In anticipation of all the sugar not coming out I decided to get some plastic brew bottles. If there is excess sugar left I'll just watch them carefully for a few hours after bottling for carbing before putting them in the fridge to go dormant.

Bakers yeast is quite variable from what I've read, some people get 5%, some get 14%. My hydrometer measured ~14% or 1.106 when I started. There's been no slowdown to this stage, so I'm hopeful this bakers yeast can do 14% and eat the sugar. My major concern is what the initial 40C pitch is going to do in regards to any negative flavours and such as the others have pointed out. If this brew only turns out 5% alcohol but no off flavours then thats a win. I don't mind a sweet drink. It was sickly sweet at the start but if the yeast only eats half of it and with carbing it should be a nice sweet, I hope.

If the yeast does consume all the sugar I planned on adding sugar to the final result anyway, so I need plastic bottles regardless. All on the assumption its drinkable of course.

 

[hobartbrewer]

+1 for reals!!

This is very dangerous mate. I'm in Hobart too and Amanda at the shop in Liverpool Street can give you enough advice to help you in the future. Experiments can be fun but safety is no laughing matter.

Hey nice to meet another Hobartian. I'll have to give that store a look, I went into Brew By You at Moonah that sp0rk posted and they seemed really friendly. Didn't quite have the wine yeast I was after but, oh well.

As to safety, yeah I agree it can be dangerous. The way I see it though is if I end up killing myself due to something I've done then there's no one else to blame but myself. Hopefully I'm educated enough on brewing to avoid a death! Famous last words I guess because I'll have to taste this ginger beer brew! Do you want a bottle to taste?

 

[hobartbrewer]

unnacceptable vitriolic responses to a simple question? He got his answer to his question in earlier posts.

Well it would be nice if people had first hand experience with 40C pitching, but it seems people here aren't as silly as me!

He was also directed to multiple stores that should have better/more appropriate products for him to use to assist in creating a better product.
He's coming across as though he couldn't give a **** about the potential problems he's about to have. That's naturally going to annoy people on a forum dedicated to doing what he's doing - fermenting.
Im not expecting him to be the most dedicated brewer on the planet with all the flashest equipment, but it's not hard to invest $6 in a cheap plastic storage crate to ferment in and use some quality yeast from one of the suggested stores.

I don't really care about the increased potential for off flavours for this batch because it's already fermenting, there's nothing I can do now about the 40C pitch. Why should I throw it out and start again? I'd rather be certain it's ruined before ditching it.

Like I said in my first post, I knew I should have pitched it around 28C but I wanted to go to bed (long day) and I was already doing all the cooling methods possible. I only had bakers yeast so I used that.

I'm an amateur doing the best with the equipment I had at the time, nothing else to it really. It certainly could have been done better, and it would have been if I had more time, but nevertheless it happened and I'm fine with it. It's funny that other people are more upset about this batch being ruined than I am!

 

[hobartbrewer]

Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.

In the old days, ginger beer was traditionally a home brewed beverage using bakers yeast. Generally, baker yeast has a low tolerence to alcohol so the alcohol content will end quite low and you will end up with a sweet ginger beer much like the old stuff, closer to a soft drink which is probably what you're looking for.

The others are correct in saying a lot of undesirable fermentation by-products are produced by fermenting too warm however, as the alcohol will most probably end up quite low, so to will the fermentation by-products.

It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.

Steve

Thanks for the info. My granddad used to make non alcoholic ginger beer for us like 25 years ago and his recipe is one I followed mainly. The reason I went with 6KG sugar is because either I'd get a high alcoholic non sweet version (that I'd add sugar too) or a sweet semi alcoholic drink with no other messing about. Gillespie's Ginger Beer over here make a drink very similar to his so that's kinda what I'm aiming for.

My hope is the 40C pitch didn't create too many off flavours because the yeast were still in the aerobic phase, but maybe I'm just clutching at straws there.

 

[bignath]

My major concern is what the initial 40C pitch is going to do in regards to any negative flavours and such as the others have pointed out.

and 20mins later...

I don't really care about the increased potential for off flavours for this batch because it's already fermenting, there's nothing I can do now about the 40C pitch....

and 5mins later...

My hope is the 40C pitch didn't create too many off flavours because the yeast were still in the aerobic phase, but maybe I'm just clutching at straws there.

FFS...

 

[np1962]

If you are confident in your sanitation you could of sealed it up in the fermenter and gone to bed.
Would of been no harm leaving it for 12 hours and pitching at the correct temps.

High temp ferments will give increased amounts of the higher alcohols such as
3-methylbutanol (isoamyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-CH2-OH
2-methylbutanol (active amyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH(CH3)-CH2-OH
2-methylpropanol (isobutyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-OH
1-propanol (n-propyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH2-OH
leading to undrinkable beer/wine/GB and when consumed can, anecdotally at least, leave the drinker with a massive hangover.

And even the use of plastic bottles does not guarantee there will be no risk of injury.
Experimentation can be fun but even the best scientists take precautions. B)
Nige

 

[sp0rk]

To be honest i have pitched at 40c before
but it was in a batch of Kilju (finnish fermented sugar and lemon water) that conked out around 16%abv (i have made a 25%abv batch through fractional freezing)
it was the most vile thing i have ever tasted, and i vomited quite violently after drinking a couple of glasses of it

 

[Guysmiley54]

Hey nice to meet another Hobartian. I'll have to give that store a look, I went into Brew By You at Moonah that sp0rk posted and they seemed really friendly. Didn't quite have the wine yeast I was after but, oh well.

As to safety, yeah I agree it can be dangerous. The way I see it though is if I end up killing myself due to something I've done then there's no one else to blame but myself. Hopefully I'm educated enough on brewing to avoid a death! Famous last words I guess because I'll have to taste this ginger beer brew! Do you want a bottle to taste?

Brew By You is OK but THBS supports wine and beer makers so I'd bet they would have wine and champagne yeast strains on hand. The shop in Moonah is pretty basic really. They store their hops and yeast at room temperature and the few times I've been there the staff have very little knowledge beyond basic kit brewing... I won't shop there any more based on the quality of the product on offer.

Thanks for the offer of a taste... I might pass on this batch! It is good to see more Hobart folk on the forum though

 

[hobartbrewer]

To be honest i have pitched at 40c before
but it was in a batch of Kilju (finnish fermented sugar and lemon water) that conked out around 16%abv (i have made a 25%abv batch through fractional freezing)
it was the most vile thing i have ever tasted, and i vomited quite violently after drinking a couple of glasses of it

Interesting. How did you get through a couple glasses if it was so vile? My last ginger beer batch 4 years ago I wasn't sure if it was just me being paranoid or there was something "unhealthy" about drinking it, maybe got a glass through and said "nah". But the wort I fermented wasn't great and I felt I totally overdid the spice. Did you taste the Kilju before putting the yeast in? The one positive I have about this ginger beer batch is how great it tasted at the start. Like a lovely ginger syrup you'd just add carbonated water to.

 

[hobartbrewer]

If you are confident in your sanitation you could of sealed it up in the fermenter and gone to bed.
Would of been no harm leaving it for 12 hours and pitching at the correct temps.

High temp ferments will give increased amounts of the higher alcohols such as
3-methylbutanol (isoamyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-CH2-OH
2-methylbutanol (active amyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH(CH3)-CH2-OH
2-methylpropanol (isobutyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-OH
1-propanol (n-propyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH2-OH
leading to undrinkable beer/wine/GB and when consumed can, anecdotally at least, leave the drinker with a massive hangover.

And even the use of plastic bottles does not guarantee there will be no risk of injury.
Experimentation can be fun but even the best scientists take precautions. B)
Nige

Hi Nige, well is there anything in my theory that since the yeast weren't producing alcohol for the initial hours that the wort had cooled by the time they went into anaerobic (and hence alcohol) production? From my limited understanding of yeast I thought when they were breathing oxygen they wouldn't be producing alcohol.

 

[sp0rk]

Interesting. How did you get through a couple glasses if it was so vile? My last ginger beer batch 4 years ago I wasn't sure if it was just me being paranoid or there was something "unhealthy" about drinking it, maybe got a glass through and said "nah". But the wort I fermented wasn't great and I felt I totally overdid the spice. Did you taste the Kilju before putting the yeast in? The one positive I have about this ginger beer batch is how great it tasted at the start. Like a lovely ginger syrup you'd just add carbonated water to.

when you're in your mid twenties and have had a couple of scotch and cokes, you'll swill anything if your mates egg you on enough...

 

[kelbygreen]

didnt read this thread as it should only be a one post solution! pitch the yeast at the temp of your wort and have the wort very close to the fermenting temp. simple, easy, and less BS. done

 

[hobartbrewer]

when you're in your mid twenties and have had a couple of scotch and cokes, you'll swill anything if your mates egg you on enough...

Haha yeah.... maybe it was the high alcohol content of your brew that made you chunder though? A couple glasses of 16% alcohol after some scotch and cokes... sounds like a big order!

 

[staggalee]

Well it would be nice if people had first hand experience with 40C pitching, but it seems people here aren't as silly as me.

Yes, it does seem that way.
They`re a strange lot on here.