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amiddler

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I would like to hold a Flavour/Sensory Training session with some beers (Adulterated) to train people in what Bad beers taste like. I have seen the Sensory Training kits from overseas which have several different "OFF" flavours, but surly there is something available here in OZ. Anyone seen such a kit or got some stuff for sale?

Drewy
 

manticle

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I helped organise some BJCP study sessions recently (which included a couple of sessions on common faults and doctored beers) and have partaken in a couple of sensory evaluation sessions outside of that (run by beerspace: http://www.beerspace.com.au/).

All of those relied on the kits from siebel (flavour-activ are meant to be good kits but priced way out of the average person's league). I don't know of anywhere in AU that provides this (possible new niche market??).

Get in touch with Mark Hibberd from bayside brewers (also active member of vicbrew so his details shouldn't be too hard to track down) for some other ideas on tainting beer without importing expensive chemicals. Also email George from beerspace for ideas.

Alternatively, if you are running a group that is registered with the BJCP or if you (or someone you know) is accredited BJCP certified or above, you can get subsidised siebel kits from the bjcp, according to their website. Price of postage for the registered group, $50 + postage for the accredited judge (limit one per year).

Unfortunately, I can tell you from experience that this great offer is not that reliable - I'm still waiting on confirmation of the kit for our study group and we sat our exam in June.
 

amiddler

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Thanks Manticle, advise taken. I would like to add some authentic "Off" flavours so a kit would be good.

Come on Triple "B", I just tasted some of your offerings. At leased we wont need the Diacetyl sample.
 

Bada Bing Brewery

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Thanks Manticle, advise taken. I would like to add some authentic "Off" flavours so a kit would be good.

Come on Triple "B", I just tasted some of your offerings. At leased we wont need the Diacetyl sample.
The pain of my stunning victory at the CVS will eventually fade ... your bitterness is noted ;)
 

manticle

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No idea what these guys are like but price is comparable to siebel: http://www.bri-advantage.com/services/sensory/sensory6b.php

There's also Aroxa but their taint kit prices are up there with flavour-activ.

Also keep in mind that these taints don't last well so they need to be bought fresh and stored cold. Anyone selling an old kit may not be helping you out.
 

Kai

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I remember wondering about these kits once upon a time, when a group of intrepid South Aussie brewers were planning to sit their BJCP exam, chaired by the imitable Captain Pedro.

I recall from that finding suggestions about how to dodge up samples to match common beer faults. I'm sure the internet could give you suggestions on DIY remedies but I haven't asked it for ages so I'm not entirely sure.
 

amiddler

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Thanks Manticle. That BCJP site has given me a good start and I have found an email address for Mark Hibberd and sent him an email.

Would love to get down to Perth for many things during Beer week Mike and this would be on the list but I am just not going to get there. I have put this in my diary for next year to take a week off work and get stuck into the celebration.

Drewy
 

Thirsty Boy

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Actually, the Aroxa style flavour standards last quite well. They are a powder in a capsule and not nearly as delicate as the liquid flavours. Aroxa also do a nice little home/craft brewer pack that for about $100 will put more than half a dozen people through 10 different flavours (taints and desirables). $10 per flavour split amongst more than 6 people is pretty damn cheap. If you're in it by yourself or with only 1 or 2 mates - you'll have enough flavour to not only learn the flavours, but give yourself a ballpark calibration as well.

Or do a BJCP course or one of the more formal training courses. Your options are I think...

Beerspace - who I know are more than capable of running a perfectly good taints and flavours type session (even if it does look to me like they are a bit ambitious with what they are calling a somelier qualification)

The Beer Academy (Aus branch) - which is affiliated with the Institute of Brewers and Distillers. Looks to me like their courses atm are a little light on. Mainly "public appeal" stuff - but if they grow to provide the same service as their pommy counterparts, will offer a really comprehensive go at just about everything beer related.

I'd say a BJCP course or Beerspace are your best bets if you want some guidance, but an Aroxa kit is pretty damn cheap if you have a couple of mates to share the cost with and you're happy to do it independently.
 

dr K

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Thanks for the Aroxa tip TB.
A few of us are taliking sensory re-evaluation (for lots of differnt reasons) and the BFK seems perfect and well priced.

K
 

Kai

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I remember wondering about these kits once upon a time, when a group of intrepid South Aussie brewers were planning to sit their BJCP exam, chaired by the imitable Captain Pedro.
Whoops. Inimitable. Sorry, Pedro.
 

manticle

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I must be missing something (and most likely am)

Aroxa kit with 12 taints for 10 people (20 hours of tasting - not sure what that means but it's late) =950 GBP. http://www.aroxa.com/beer/beer-flavour-sta...-essentials-kit
Siebel (24 taints, serves 20 people in a single session): $190 US. http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-...p;product_id=35

The siebel kits certainly need to be fresh and having no experience personally of the aroxa, I accept that thay may last longer but it seems aimed more at the commercial brewery side of things than at the HB person. If you could pick 3 or 4 distinct common taints, then it's a different story (80 GBP for a bunch of people to taste and analyse diacetyl in a single session for example - probably a great way of doing things) but for 'complete' kits, just under 1000 GBP is prohibitive.

Am I looking at the wrong page?
 

tallie

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I recently ran a hastily put-together tainted beer session for the BABBs September meeting:

An imported German Pilsner (Radeberger) was used as the base beer, and each 330ml bottle was dosed in the following way:

Sweet - 7ml Sugar solution (1:1 sugar dissolved in water)
Alcoholic - 12ml vodka
DMS - 7ml liquid from a can of corn
Clovey - 2 cloves
Sour (acetic) - 7ml white vinegar

Clovey and Sour were picked out reasonably easily, with some members also identifying Sweet. Alcoholic and DMS, while noticably different, were probably not dosed high enough to make the flavour obvious.
If I ran it again, I would add 1.5-2 times more adulterant for the first three, and also actually take the cloves out of the bottle before serving the fourth one :) (or use clove oil). Sour was just about spot-on. I also found out there there is only about 12ml head-space in a 330ml bottle, so you may need to dump some of the beer first before doctoring it.

In the exam study guide table of contents, click on 'guidelines for doctoring beers': http://www.bjcp.org/study.php

or if this link works: http://www.bjcp.org/study.php#drbeer
^ This is what we used as a guide for doctoring the beers.

I tried in vain to find banana essence for estery, but couldn't find any in time. I also tried oxidising a beer by re-capping and letting sit out for a couple of days at 25-30C, but it was no where near long enough or hot enough to make any discernable difference in flavour.

We are in the same boat as manitcle regarding the elusive $50 Siebel kit via the BJCP, in that we took the exam in early September and are still waiting to hear back about the kit!

Finally, I took part in the palate calibration session at ANHC a couple of weeks ago, which used the Aroxa kits. From memory they were ethyl hexanoate, kettle hops, acetaldehyde, diacetyl & oxidised. At 3-times the average threshold, I found they were generally quite characteristic of the common descriptors (papery, buttery, etc) and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them if they're in your budget range.

Cheers,
tallie
 

amiddler

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Thanks Tallie. A few good ones there. I did this years ECU Perth Short Brewing course and we tasted a few different Off flavours as part of that. I just thought about it, I should email the guys there and ask what they use and what the recommend. Possibly where I should have started but you have all given me great ideas, thanks.
 

manticle

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Just as a follow up to this thread - looking at holding some evaluation at our brewclub and emailed aroxa (mentioned earlier).

Shelf life is far superior to siebel and the ten taste kit found here http://www.aroxa.com/beer/beer-flavour-standard-kit/beer-uno-kit
is 69 GBP delivered as delivery outside the UK is free.

When I first looked at the aroxa page everything seemed very expensive but the uno kit is hiding in there somewhere.

Looking good.
 

tricache

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We have our Aroxa kit ready for The GoldCLUB beer training meet later on this year so we will let you know how it goes and if its a good thing
 

manticle

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What was their shipping time like? Email response was within 24 hours.
 

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