Table Salt

[bum]

This is not true, perhaps with bakers yeast but not so with brewers yeasts.
I have had the 'pleasure' of tasting a beer that was brewed with water salted to the same level as sea water.
Fermented fine and had an interesting flavour.
To me it was just :icon_vomit: but other tasters seemed to think it was OK.
Cheers
Nige

Was that Chappo's dad from that TV show?

 

[np1962]

Strange that regular bakers yeast is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae (aka Ale Yeast).

Salt will kill it. Feel free to google "does salt kill yeast", "salt kills yeast" or even "does salt kill brewers yeast" - they'll all say yes.

Regular sea water has roughly 3% salt by weight so a 20L batch of beer would have to have 600g of salt to be "the same level as sea water." That is 3x the concentration of salt than in baked bread. While it's possible for some yeast to survive, I would prefer my schooners without 3 teaspoons of salt in them.

Cheers.

Not sure if you are saying salt is what kills the yeast in baked bread? I would of thought it was the heat that did that when baking.
Am just stating what I have seen done with brewing. The brewer in question has also been responsible for vegemite beer among many other experiments and was SABSOSA Brewer of Show a few years back before getting the head brewer job at a micro. Made some great beers AND some shockers!
His salt water beer was definitely not to my taste either.

@Bum... not Chappos dad :lol:

Edit:- Interesting info found during searching. Seems that stressing yeast in a 7% salt solution makes for better bread rathr than actually killing the yeast.
"Baker's yeast was stressed in 7% salt solution then mixed into dough, which was then evaluated for fermentation time, dough fermentation producing gas, dough expansion, bread specific volumes, and sensory and physical properties. The results of this study indicated that salt-stressed Baker's yeast shortened fermentation time in 16% and 24% sugar dough. Forty minutes of salt stress produced significant amount of gas and increased bread specific volumes. The bread was softer and significantly improved sensory properties for aroma, taste, and overall acceptability were obtained."

 

[jakub76]

It is generally recommended that brewers use canning or pickling salt - it is basically sodium chloride and used in small enough proportions to boost chloride to brewing water. In 16 Litres of mash water 1.5grams or a quarter tsp triples the chloride count of my water. At much higher concentrations I have no doubt it would inhibit yeast, as it does in baking.

Iodised salt (table salt) contains iodine that is toxic to yeast, I know people use it and their beer still ferments but they would get a better result using pure sodium chloride.

 

[O'Henry]

This is not true, perhaps with bakers yeast but not so with brewers yeasts.
I have had the 'pleasure' of tasting a beer that was brewed with water salted to the same level as sea water.
Fermented fine and had an interesting flavour.
To me it was just :icon_vomit: but other tasters seemed to think it was OK.
Cheers
Nige

Brewers and bakers yeast are the same species.

 

[np1962]

[quote name='O'Henry' post='676531' date='Sep 7 2010, 12:11 AM']Brewers and bakers yeast are the same species.[/quote]
Acknowledged.
The point of my statement was that there must be some differences in the strains if Faithy is correct in his salt kills yeast statement as I know of beer being brewed with heavily salted water.
Have now also read some info regarding stressing yeast in a heavy salt solution to improve baked bread. There must be some level at which salt kills yeast but don't think we will ever reach it while brewing.
Jakub76's comment re iodine in table salt being toxic to yeast may hold the key.
Re Bum's Chappo's Dad comment, that came from a tv spot earlier in the year when some old bugger was highlighted. He was said to brew all his beer with actual Sea Water.
Was not trying to start a war just trying to add to the thread. :icon_cheers:
Cheers
Nige

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

Brando,

my 2c mate.

Can't seem to get a clear answer as to why some brewers add table salt.

salt (non-iodised) changes the flavour of your beer.

Some add it to the mash, and others add it to the boil.

i add all my water chemistry directly to the mash. this is because if i am adjusting my water chemistry you can bet there is a calcium addition and i want the calcium benefit during the mash and calcium is not very soluble
Salt for flavour enhancement could be added later in the process

Most seem to add about a teaspoon per 23L batch.

Seems to be used in darker beers only, such as ESB's, porters and stouts.

how much you add depends on how much is already in the water you are using and the style of beer you're brewing. I suspect 1 tsp is on the high side for most waters/beer styles

I've found some suggestions that it makes the malt flavour more "rounded" - whatever that means.

"rounded" in my experience is smoother, more mouth filling, less rough grainy edges

Is there any sense in using it if I already use pH5.2 stabiliser?

salt <is not equal to> 5.2 buffer, so there is sense in thinking about using salt in your brewing. they do very different things in terms of process and flavour


Other stuff not asked about.

Do you think your beer needs salt added? or other water chemistry adjustments? enter some in a comp for feedback. chat and give samples to local brewers with more experience. read more about the effect of chemical additions while you're tasting your own beer, do you think your beer could be improved by adding stuff to it?. maybe try some water chemistry adjustments where you would expect to see a lot of difference like gypsum in an IPA

what is your local water like anyway, google your local water board they usually have a typical analysis. you need this as a starting point.

John Palmers how to brew has lots of useful stuff about water chemistry and I always like to recommend it, but perhaps a book called "beer captured" might me of more use to you. it has a couple of appendices with common water additions. gives appropriate additions (in tsp amounts) for different beer styles based on your existing water profile. pretty easy to use.

good luck

keith

 

[Screwtop]

Faithy is correct salt does kill yeast and many other organisms, why it is used as a preservative. I also trained as a baker a thousand or so years ago. Back then Table Salt NaCl (Sodium Chloride) was added to bread at 2% which had no real effect on fermentation. Just the same as a small amount in beer. A teaspoon of salt at around 6 grams in 22L of wort represents only around .03% so no risk to yeast performance there.

Table Salt and Iodised Salt are the same animal except that Iodine is added to one. 'Way back when' Thyroid disease was a problem due to low dietary intake of iodine caused by low levels of iodine in the soil in some growing areas (TAS) for staples like potatoes. Introduction of Iodised Table Salt was the answer. Due to dietary changes potatoes are not eaten in the quantities they once were, so now......Iodine is being added to bread............probably in the form of Iodised Salt :lol:


Table Salt is also a flavour enhanser and lifts the flavour of both Malt and Hops in beer.

Screwy

 

[mje1980]

" This thread is making me thirsty!"

 

[Phoney]

Brewing salts is one area that I haven't had the time to research yet, however I know that Sydney water is only 50ppm in Ca whereas it should be 150+, therefore I add around 8g of Calcium Sulfate to every 23L mash... (as well as 10g of 5.2 stabilizer) I have no idea if this is the right amount, but im happy with all of my results.

 

[mje1980]

Nobody got my sienfeld reference! haha

That's around what i add roughly, and double with double batches. Seems to work well. THough i add a total of 8g/16g, so it might be 50/50 gypsum and chloride, or 100% chloride etc. I usually do 100% chl for milds, for malty yumminess, and it seems toi work well.