Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[aussiebrewer]

How does this look? My first Saison recipe....

I have a bucketload of Victoria's Secret flowers to get through

Figured the stone fruitiness could suit the dryness of a Saison, or would a more neutral bittering hop be better?

out of saison (Saison)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 4.91 %
Colour (SRM): 4.0 (EBC): 7.9
Bitterness (IBU): 27.2 (Average)

47.62% Pilsner
38.1% Vienna
14.29% Wheat Malt

0.5 g/L Victorias Secret (16.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Victorias Secret (16.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 63°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20-25°C with Danstar Belle Saison

Hey mate how did this one Turn out? Was the Vic secret you used the new Australian budding star? I am keen to know the outcome as I have heard using it before whirlpool is not advised. I made a basic pale ale smash with it and turned out rubbish but I used a lot the whole way through


Cheers
Matt

 

[AntonW]

I've used it the whole way through and it turned out great, but I didn't use a heap.

I think, for a double batch with OG 1.04something I used 10g for bittering, 15g at 30 min and 20g at 10 min. I would've started chilling the 5 minutes after flameout, and finished about 15 minutes later.

 

[Redwood]

Brewing my first Saison soon and a friend just bought me some sheets of untreated Canadian Cedar (designed to wrap fish or meats in for cooking) from the US. What are your thoughts of throwing a sheet or two into the boil for a slight woody character, along with the usual orange peel etc.?

 

[seamad]

I would guess a bad idea, Most common way to wood a beer is to add some to the fermenter after boiling it/ soaking in vodka etc. That way you can taste each day and pull the wood before it overpowers the beer.

 

[Redwood]

I see, so possibly adding some whilst dry hopping, (after some sort of sterilization of course)

 

[sp0rk]

I would cut into inch wide 4 inch long strips, wrap it in foil and chuck it in the oven at around 220C for 3-4 hours
Pull it out and check the toasting, if it's getting nice and dark, take it off, if not keep going for a bit longer
You can then boil it or soak in vodka before use
You need to toast the oak to bring out certain flavours (oakiness, sweetness, vanilla) otherwise it will just taste like gnawing on wood

 

[Redwood]

Interesting, however I was thinking of using Canadian Cedar, not oak, I know that you should never smoke anything with Cedar, as it has a high sap and turpene content, which gives an unpleasant flavor when burnt or heated too high, so i dont really want to raise the temp on it too much. (hopefully boiling should not effect this) However its natural 'raw' flavor is quite nice, and hopefully will pair nicely with Saison spices.

What i was hoping for was a very slight 'cedar barrel aged flavor', only achieved in an apartment, with a plastic fermenter.

Just an idea anyway....

 

[sp0rk]

I didn't even notice that you said cedar
The only thing I've ever heard of being aged in cedar is sake, apparently japanese cedar gives a minty flavour...
Having a quick browse on some distilling sites and it looks like many cedars give off toxins when soaked, so I don't think I'd be chancing it

 

[hwall95]

I was just wondering, in terms of a historical perspective, how come saisons are brewed at such a high temperature? From what I've read they were originally brewed during winter in Belgium which around 4-8 degrees and then aged for summer, so how come a belgian saison strain like 3724 is so happy to be brewed at 28+ and gift us with its great saison flavours?

I brewed mine at 26-30+ and it loved it and from my tasting from the fermenter, I loved it! Although just wondering why this strain is so great in high temps even though originally it was a winter brew?

 

[seehuusen]

I thought it was brewed in spring, where the temp fluctuations are bigger. Keen to hear an explanation too though

 

[Spiesy]

I believe the history was it was brewed "at the end of the cool season", so you'd imagine sometime in Spring. Not sure how wildly the spring temps fluctuate in that part of Belgium, or at what point in spring fermentation would occur.

 

[technobabble66]

Still no word from Pat_00 on how his brew turned out?

 

[hwall95]

So I started a 750mL starter (will step to 3L) with my washed 3724 from my last belgian saison that turned out great and just planning to do another basic grain bill of 70% pils, 30% wheat and then ferment ambient in the current QLD temperature. However I had a rye saison the other night and loved it and was wondering if anyone has had an success with rye and 3724?

 

[hwall95]

If anyone's wondering, I've decided to go with the following:

OG: 1.055
IBU: 25

4.6kg Belgian Pils - 70%
1kg Rye - 15%
1kg Wheat - 15%
18 IBU @ 60 with Magnum
7 IBU @ cube with EKG
Big starter of re-cultured Wyeast 3724, ferment at ambient shade temperatures

 

[technobabble66]

Looks great. Keen to hear how it goes. Never used it myself

FWIW, there's a short thread that just started to do with rye - Here
Basically the bit i'd pay attention to is milling it very fine (maybe run it through the mill a few times) to get the best flavour out of it; and the problem with stuck sparges, esp when combined with a fair amount of wheat - maybe use rice hulls if you don't BIAB.

Good luck!
(& Report later!)

 

[Simdop]

I've been thinking of doing a saison, aiming for about 5% but thinking of adding a few km of peaches in secondary fermentation. Any thoughts on how that would go? Thinking of putting them through the food processor and then in a grain bag into the fermenter.

Aiming for low IBU's, probably Perle for bittering and a dash of Cascade for aroma.

Think the peaches will blend or get lost?

 

[hwall95]

Looks great. Keen to hear how it goes. Never used it myself

FWIW, there's a short thread that just started to do with rye - Here
Basically the bit i'd pay attention to is milling it very fine (maybe run it through the mill a few times) to get the best flavour out of it; and the problem with stuck sparges, esp when combined with a fair amount of wheat - maybe use rice hulls if you don't BIAB.

Good luck!
(& Report later!)

Yeah I BIAB so no problems with stuck sparges here Currently it's sitting around 1.02 down from 1.062 so no stalls thankfully. It's been fermenting at 28-30 however the weather has 'cooled' down a little bit now so I have a heater and wrapped it in insulation to keep it at 30-32 to help it finish and produce that amazing belgian saison flavour we all love! So far it's tasting pretty spot on to what I wanted! The rye goes so well saisons, can't wait to have it finished and bottled/maybe kegged depending on the beer supply situation..

Will update once it's ready to drink! :chug:

 

[drunken_snail]

hi i have brewed 6 saisons so far, ranging in strength from 5.5 to 8.6% just wondering if anyone has tried higher or lower than this range.

I know this is the approximate style range for this beer. But i was discussing with a mate how good the danstar belle saison yeast was we came to wondering how high did we think the yeast would go and still eat all the sugar.

once my gluten free saison is finished fermenting, i might try super strong saison. just because im curious.

Then i can move on and try making a biere de garde.

 

[Tahoose]

JB made a elderflower Saison that he bought to the vic case swap and I think that was about 4.5%.

Really tasty too.

 

[heyhey]

Just made my first Saison two weeks ago. It smells and tastes really good, nice and fruity (citrus and apricot like), ever so slightly sour (is best way to describe it), but I think I ruined it during milling. It has a husk aftertaste which doesn't stop you putting it down the trap, but leaves a VB sort of taste on the palette after a breathe or two. It's currently in the secondary and will likely be there for about 6 weeks. It's only my 3rd All-Grain home brew, so I'm just playing and understand the ingredients and process a bit better. First time I've milled myself too, so assuming slower speed next time.

Original Gravity (OG): 1.42 (Measured)
Final Gravity (FG): 1.002 (Measured)
Alcohol (ABV): 5.2 % (Measured)
Colour (EBC): 12.9
Bitterness (IBU): 26.8
Batch 23L

3.5kg Pilsner (2 row)
1.0kg Dark Wheat
0.5kg Acid Malt
8g Citra FWH
22g Citra @ 15min
28g Citra @ 0min
Danstar Belle Saison

63*C for 40min
71*C for 15min

60min boil

Ferm 2 weeks at 22*C