Strange happenings since going AG

[Chris7]

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone might know the cause of the strange phenomenon I have been having. Since going AG, my bottled beer tastes so very much better than it did when I was extract brewing. But now my kegs don't seem as good compared to the bottled, just less flavour in general. I have had a complete polar shift with my brewing. Any ideas what may be the cause of this? I tasted one of my kegged beers last night and admittedly it had only been kegged for a week, but I was amazingly underwhelmed. It was also my first cube hopped brew and there was very little hop aroma, flavour or even bitterness compared to what I was expecting. Still better than my extract though!

 

[peas_and_corn]

It depends, what flavour flaws are you tasting? If it's a cardboardy flavour, you might be oxidising your finished beer as you fill the keg more than you do the bottles when you fill them.

 

[Yeastfridge]

No matter how heavily I have cube hopped (no chill, which is what I assume you're doing) I can't get good hop flavour from it. I reckon that could be your issue with this one. I get better hop flavour with 20g hops at flameout than I do with 150g in the cube.
I like the convenience of no chilling but only for beers without late hop additions.

 

[Nizmoose]

This could be just me but why do I feel as though no chillers forget the basic principles of hopping when it comes to cube additions? I understand the longer heat time will extract more but it's not boiling, why add a flame out addition for flavour when everyone knows that's an aroma addition time even with no chilling? Surely if you're lacking flavour the best place to start is a 15-10 minute addition? Not having a go at all just curious as to why it's not a good place to start

 

[Chris7]

It depends, what flavour flaws are you tasting? If it's a cardboardy flavour, you might be oxidising your finished beer as you fill the keg more than you do the bottles when you fill them.

Howdy, it's no off flavour at all, just a real lack of hop flavour, but the bottled beer seems to be good although I am yet to try the cube hopped batch out of a bottle. I am putting another brew down tomorrow and will try a 10min addition as well as cube and dry hopping and see how it goes.

 

[Chris7]

This could be just me but why do I feel as though no chillers forget the basic principles of hopping when it comes to cube additions? I understand the longer heat time will extract more but it's not boiling, why add a flame out addition for flavour when everyone knows that's an aroma addition time even with no chilling? Surely if you're lacking flavour the best place to start is a 15-10 minute addition? Not having a go at all just curious as to why it's not a good place to start

Hey, all good. It was my first time cube hopping and given what I had read I wanted to go easy on the additions. I only cube hopped 40g of galaxy and then dry hopped as well. When I brew tomorrow I will do a 10/15 addition along with cube and dry hopping. Will put the recipe up later for critiquing.

 

[Chris7]

So the brew I am putting down tomorrow will be something similar to below.

4kg Vienna
1kg wheat malt
0.3kg carapils.

Mash 68c for 90mins.

15g magnum 60 mins
20g cascade 10 mins
20g nelson sauvin 10 mins

30g cascade cube hop
30g nelson sauvin cube hop

20g cascade dry hop
20g nelson sauvin dry hop.

Thoughts or suggestions to the hop schedule? The grain is ready to go and has been milled and mixed.

 

[n87]

i cube, and i put my bittering charge in at 45.

I work on the cubing being 15 mins, so 60 min additions become 45. 15 min additions go in the cube.

 

[Tahoose]

So the brew I am putting down tomorrow will be something similar to below.

4kg Vienna
1kg wheat malt
0.3kg carapils.

Mash 68c for 90mins.

15g magnum 60 mins

50g cascade cube hop
15g nelson sauvin cube hop

20g cascade dry hop
10g nelson sauvin dry hop.

Thoughts or suggestions to the hop schedule? The grain is ready to go and has been milled and mixed.

If I was making that beer for me, that's how I'd run it.

If you feel that your not getting hop flavour from the no chill/cube (which I find strange).
You can always run off 1-2ltrs into a pot when you are pitching the cube, do a 10min boil and chuck the lot in with the rest of the brew.

Or make a hop tea - 5-10mins of steeping hops in boiling water.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

How long are you leaving your beer in the kettle before it goes to the cube and are/have you measured the temp of wort going into the cube. I'd bet it might be below 80C which is the temp at which isomerisation reduces abruptly IIRC, try transferring to the cubes at 90-95C, see if it helps.

 

[Pogierob]

Possibly not the issue but I have found that a week old kegged beer is always inferior to a month old one (usually the last point in the keg).
Perhaps it's as simple as your bottles have been given the better chance to age.

 

[Chris7]

If I was making that beer for me, that's how I'd run it.

If you feel that your not getting hop flavour from the no chill/cube (which I find strange).
You can always run off 1-2ltrs into a pot when you are pitching the cube, do a 10min boil and chuck the lot in with the rest of the brew.

Or make a hop tea - 5-10mins of steeping hops in boiling water.

Yeh I think I will give this a go tomorrow and see what happens. With the first one that I cube hopped it was only 40g of galaxy in the cube and the only other addition apart from dry hopping was the bittering. So this one will have more hops at more stages.

 

[Nizmoose]

Hey, all good. It was my first time cube hopping and given what I had read I wanted to go easy on the additions. I only cube hopped 40g of galaxy and then dry hopped as well. When I brew tomorrow I will do a 10/15 addition along with cube and dry hopping. Will put the recipe up later for critiquing.

Haha don't feel like the inexperienced one here I have done very little brewing and have never no chilled I just always like to bring things back to basics when a problem arises I'd definitely have gone conservative to begin with too but if you're lacking flavour I'd go out of my way to make an addition I know adds flavour as opposed to have to dial in an appropriate cube addition

 

[Chris7]

How long are you leaving your beer in the kettle before it goes to the cube and are/have you measured the temp of wort going into the cube. I'd bet it might be below 80C which is the temp at which isomerisation reduces abruptly IIRC, try transferring to the cubes at 90-95C, see if it helps.

Howdy, it would have been probably a max of 10 minutes I would say and I didn't measure the temp. I will do so tomorrow though.

 

[Chris7]

Possibly not the issue but I have found that a week old kegged beer is always inferior to a month old one (usually the last point in the keg).
Perhaps it's as simple as your bottles have been given the better chance to age.

To be honest this could very well be it. Just needing a bit of time to open up. Will see how it is in a fee weeks.

 

[lukiferj]

I have been mostly cube hopping for all my pale ales and IPAs of which I brew quite a bit for the last 2 months. I do a 60 min addition and all the rest cube hopped with a keg hop as well. Loving both the aroma and flavour I'm getting and wasn't able to get before with no chilling. I do double or triple most of my additions now though. eg If I had 50 grams going in at 10 mins or under I will put 150 grams in the cube. Am burning through hops a bit quicker but don't mind as I'm making beers I am super happy with.

 

[Tahoose]

Don't want to derail the thread but alot of this discussion can be found here

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76527-cube-hopping/?fromsearch=1

I love it. Especially when your doing double or triples.

 

[Chris7]

Don't want to derail the thread but alot of this discussion can be found here

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76527-cube-hopping/?fromsearch=1

I love it. Especially when your doing double or triples.

Hey, all good. The thread wasn't even originally about the hopping methods haha just odd that my kegged beer had less flavour than the bottles. Have had a good read of that thread as well as others relating to cube hopping. Interesting stuff.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I have been mostly cube hopping for all my pale ales and IPAs of which I brew quite a bit for the last 2 months. I do a 60 min addition and all the rest cube hopped with a keg hop as well. Loving both the aroma and flavour I'm getting and wasn't able to get before with no chilling. I do double or triple most of my additions now though. eg If I had 50 grams going in at 10 mins or under I will put 150 grams in the cube. Am burning through hops a bit quicker but don't mind as I'm making beers I am super happy with.

Ditto apart from the quantities. Finding the 60min plus cube hopped strategy a good backbone to no chill brewing.

 

[Joel Mcleod]

Chris, was the beer you bottled the same batch you kegged?
When you say the kegged beer is lacking flavour, is that just the hop (bittering/aroma) or are you also referring to your malt profile as well?
If it is the bittering flavour your lacking, would First Wort Hop additions help?