Steeping Grain And Effeciency

[McCraggen]

Another dumb question im sure, but if i have about 500g of grain to be steeped, what sort of weight of fermentable sugars can i expect from it?

as in 500g grain = ?g of malt extract.

Im guessing the husks of the grain and the overall process would mean some loss but im just wondering how much roughly?

cheers.

 

[brettprevans]

if your still doing K&K dont even worry about that issue as 99% of your fermentables will be coming from elsewhere. steeping grains in K&K is mainly about getting flavours, colour etc.

im sure someone might be able to tanswerr you, but also remember that malt extract has been condensed so 500g of 'steep wort' i would think be = to FWA malt extract.

I personally never worry about taking steeped grains into my % alc calc. i could understand if you were doing a minimash, but thats using a lot more grain.

actually i guess beersmith or promash would be able to tell you. sorry i dont have either.

 

[raven19]

+1 for CM's thoughts.

Is the grain malted, if so then some fermentables will be expected, but fairly minimal. Generally done more so for colour, body & depth in the beer for a KnB beer.

 

[buttersd70]

Some software (such as beersmith) will assign a low efficiency to grain steeps if the recipe is set to 'extract'. I think its in the region fo 30%. Brewsta does similat, I think it works off about 40%. Promash on the other hand doesn't assign lower efficiency; it calculates it based on teh brewhouse efficiency that has been entered in your preferences (exactly the same as it would calculate for a mash). Palmer considers extraction from steeping to be less than you get from mashing, his data is (afaik) empirical, and is in how to brew.

Personally, I use a brewhouse efficiency of 60% for steeping specialty grains (with no base malt present), as a happy medium, and all subject to 'ish'....theres too much varience in grain type to be overly concerned. The formula you are looking for is ppg x weight (lb) x efficiency / volume (in US gallons); or, HWE x weight (kg) x efficiency / volume (in Litres).

So for JW crystal with a ppg of 34 (or a HWE of ~300), it is 0.5kgx300x0.6/23L = 3.9. So 4 gravity points in 23L. (roughly).

Further calculations are here.

lets face it, the tools we use to measure are all subject to a certain 'ish' factor anyway....due to paralex error, user error, etc. So any grav reading is really going to be +/- probably 2 points anyway. Which means in the grand scheme of things, a couple of hundred grams of spec malts in a 23L batch is neither here nor there, and calculating it any more accurately is a waste of energy imo....because then the calculated amounts are outside our capability of accurately measuring.

 

[ianh]

Another dumb question im sure, but if i have about 500g of grain to be steeped, what sort of weight of fermentable sugars can i expect from it?

cheers.

Glad you asked the question as I was thinking of asking it. I am not happy with the numbers in my spreadsheet for steeped grains.
It currently uses HWE of 300 and efficiency of 50%.

Part of what was prompting my query, I am reading "Brewing Great Beer with Extract" and Palmer assumes a 70% yield for steeping grains on page 37 and a recent brew I did with 500g steeped grains had a higher OG than expected.

Might up the spreadsheet calculation to 60% as buttersd70 suggested.

cheers

Ian

 

[Fermented]

This is actually something I had been wondering about. No matter how much grain for steeping I add to BeerSmith recipes, there is no gain on SG.

That said, the most I've added is about 1 kg as an entry in a recipe... usually don't go past about 400 gms.

However, the few that I've gone north of 600 gms by way of experiment seem to be stronger ales, despite BeerSmith speaking to the contrary.

Thanks for the formula and the tip for adjusting the effiency to make it less ish and more accurate-ish.


Cheers - Fermented.

 

[buttersd70]

Oh, I forgot...as far as beersmith is concerned, I enter it as a partial (even if it isn't), not an extract. Entering it as partial unlocks the efficiency button, allowing you to change the setting. (it also makes it easier to check the boil gravity, which is hiding in the popup box when you click on efficiency....which you can't do if it's entered as "extract").

 

[Gavo]

Oh, I forgot...as far as beersmith is concerned, I enter it as a partial (even if it isn't), not an extract. Entering it as partial unlocks the efficiency button, allowing you to change the setting. (it also makes it easier to check the boil gravity, which is hiding in the popup box when you click on efficiency....which you can't do if it's entered as "extract").

Well well, will ya look at that. Ya learn somthin' new every day. Cheers Butters. :icon_cheers: Ive been looking for an easy way to spot that.

Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Well well, will ya look at that. Ya learn somthin' new every day. Cheers Butters. :icon_cheers: Ive been looking for an easy way to spot that.

Gavo.

I could have sworn I'd mentioned that to you before, when I was helping you with extract recipes yonks ago, before you moved onto partials...... :unsure: Maybe it was someone else. :lol:

There are a couple of ways of checking it...one is to 'preview brewsheet'. But for me, this is easiest.

 

[Fermented]

Thanks Butters! Will have a tool around with that.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Muggus]

I'd actually consider giving this a practical test.

If you were to give it controlled steep at mash temps at standard mash grain-to-water ratios...essentially a mash without base grain...and tested the gravity and volume of the runnings, that should give you an indication of your efficiency and what sort of extra sugars/gravity points you'd be adding to your brew.
Of course, that's taking things one step ahead, but it'd be handy for future reference.

 

[Fermented]

Well worth a shot...

Love to hear a result if anyone has the time and inclination to do it.

Cheers - Fermented.