Starter sanitation necessary?

[Dubzie]

So back when i used to brew with can kits, you would sanitize the fermenter add some hot tap water, add your can contents, fill with cold tap water then add yeast, in the 20+ kit brews over the last few years never had an infection ect...

Now i've moved on to all grain brewing and also starter making.

If the dry yeast can grow quickly enough in such a large volume of wort and fight off infection, then why cant we do the same with our starters?
I mean we pitch same amount of yeast into only 2L of wort!

Please discuss!

 

[manticle]

I don't understand the question.
What do you want to not sanitise? Vessel you make the starter in?

 

[MartinOC]

Anything you grow-up in your starters will increase in your main batch..including nasties.

If you've moved to AG & have spent all that time creating your wort, why risk it? In fact, I'd say be even MORE careful with your sanitary practices with your starters than before.

It doesn't take much....

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Please discuss!

You cant be serious...surley

 

[Dubzie]

I don't understand the question.
What do you want to not sanitise? Vessel you make the starter in?

Yea sorry, still sanitize the equipment ect, but forgo the boiling and cooling of the water and malt extract.
The missus does not like me taking over her fridge/sink trying to cool the boiling wort for the starter.

I do have a espring water filter which has a UV filter and kills 99.99% of bacteria ect in tap water.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The missus does not like me taking over her fridge/sink trying to cool the boiling wort for the starter.

Time for a trade in then B)

 

[zappa]

Poor sanitisation may not lead to an "infection" you can easily identify, but more often than not will lead to undesirable/off flavours in your finished product. May not be evident immediately, but will often establish itself after a few days, weeks or months after kegging or bottling. May not be an issue if you're putting a keg away every few days, but why skimp? Use the laundry sink or a bucket instead, or just do it ahead of time, cover it and let it cool at room temp. Then again, if you're the only one drinking your brew, you're not out to brew the best you can and you're happy with the finished product, keep on as you are.

 

[Rocker1986]

I do a sort of "no-chill" with my yeast starters, by simply boiling it in the flask on the stove, then covering it with foil and boiling again for a minute or so, then leaving it sit there until it's at room temp.

Being on broken shifts at work makes this reasonably easy though as I can boil it up in my break and by the time I'm back home and heading to bed it's usually cooled down enough to pitch the yeast into. I wouldn't leave it any longer than that though as there is a headspace in it unlike in no-chill cubes.

I've done heaps of starters this way and have not had any problems. Occasionally I will chill them down in a water bath if I can be bothered, but yeah.

 

[manticle]

Yeast is a microorganism. You are making conditions that many microorganisms love to multiply in.

Boiling will kill the microorganisms already present, providing a blank slate. If you don't boil, you may offer other microorganisms a chance to grow big, bold and nasty tasting.

Your beer, your choice. I boil.

 

[VP Brewing]

The missus does not like me taking over her fridge/sink trying to cool the boiling wort for the starter.

I'm glad I own half of my fridge/sink. Otherwise making starters would be hard too.

 

[danestead]

My understanding wasn't that yeast will multiply so quickly that it will fight off infection, rather, it will multiply quickly and out number other bacteria/yeast etc. This means there is still undesirable bacteria/wild yeasts in there but as a % it is quite small hence the flavour effect isn't noticed as much. That being said, I find it hard to believe you never had an 'infection' in your kit and kilos, rather the level of infection or undesirable bacteria/wild yeasts was low or below flavour threshold. Even when sanitising, there will/may be a level of undesirable left still alive. If there weren't, it'd be called sterilizing. This is my understanding anyway and may or may not differ.

To answer the question, should you sanitise your starters etc, yes. If not, don't invite me over for a drink haha.

 

[huez]

why are you making yeast starters with dry yeast?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

why are you making yeast starters with dry yeast?

Its not a starter...its re-hydration... h34r:

 

[Dubzie]

why are you making yeast starters with dry yeast?

I dont.. Didnt say i did

 

[seamad]

You don't need a sink to cool it in. Just boil in your flask with some foil on the top and set aside until cool enough to pitch.

 

[huez]

I dont.. Didnt say i did

you only mention dry yeast in your post so one would think you were using dry yeast. A packet of dry yeast has 220billion yeast cells, a vial of liquid yeast has 100 billion when its fresh, that number obviously dropping the older it is. So you're not pitching the same amount of yeast at all, thats why you're making the starter in the first place. Making a yeast starter is when you should be extra careful about how clean and sanitised everything is. If you can't make a clean starter you won't be able to make clean beer either. Boil it or just buy more vials of yeast. I hate making starters but sometimes it must be done!


edit:billion not million

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

you only mention dry yeast in your post so one would think you were using dry yeast. A packet of dry yeast has 220million yeast cells, a vial of liquid yeast has 100 million when its fresh, that number obviously dropping the older it is. So you're not pitching the same amount of yeast at all, thats why you're making the starter in the first place. Making a yeast starter is when you should be extra careful about how clean and sanitised everything is. If you can't make a clean starter you won't be able to make clean beer either. Boil it or just buy more vials of yeast. I hate making starters but sometimes it must be done!

Wyeast smack packs dont need starters as they are direct pitchable

 

[huez]

So is white labs. Pretty sure both start with the same cell count. Why would you need to make a starter with one and not the other?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Cause the internet said so

 

[huez]

The internet strikes again.