Stainless threads galling.

[Pnutapper]

Stainless is a prick that way in that once it wants to pick up, you're basically snookered and efforts made to remove the nut compound the problem.
Penetrene - won't work, very effective on corroded nuts but not on bound stainless
Heat - worth a shot but not common practice that I have seen on stainless threads. If you don't have an oxy or similar don't go to extraordinary lengths to get one, as it probably won't work.

First option is to give it more force - put a bar on the spanner and use all your might to try and remove it. You'll damage the thread, but chances are if it's tapered you might be able to get away with it. Obviously tap the thread out after you're done.

If you absolutely must remove the component then the option is limited to cutting the nipple, grinding out the remaining nipple with a die grinder until you can see the female part of the thread, then manually trying to remove the thread remnants from the nipple. This will be frustrating and laborious and not guaranteed to work depending on how fused the threads are. This will certainly damage the thread in part and you'll need to run a tap through it with liberal cutting fluid.

Personally, I would cut out the bound socket and weld in a new one. $20 for the socket and a few hours' labour for a welder.

.

Thank you... This all seems like sound advice, it appears that you have had some experience with this type of buggerance.

The nipple is tapered, and as you say you can get away with force, I did for 23 of the 24 fittings. I have tried a breaker bar, and I don't think any amount of force will achieve anything for this last one. (Except to possibly rip the framework out of the floor.)

Your second option is something I have considered but I suspect that your words "This will be frustrating and laborious and not guaranteed to work" are very true. This option in the long run is also likely to end up more exxy than your third option.

Soooo.... Option 3 is my get out of jail plan now if the heat thing doesn't work. Just need to find a contractor that is capable of this type of thing. My own welding skills are not up to the task.

P.S. The rep for the Loctite food grade anti seize product claims it to be safe in brewing environs. If any one is interested, I will report back once I can reintroduce beer to the manifold. This equipment is a distribution manifold for the finished product, and not a brewery as such.

 

[2cranky]

All unnecessary leave has been cancelled! I don't know whether to give the apprentice the torch or the spanner. He will hurt himself either way.

The spanner of course! Give him the torch he might hurt you and burn half the joint down.

 

[Pnutapper]

The spanner of course! Give him the torch he might hurt you and burn half the joint down.

HaHaHa
I reckon he would be able to hurt himself/me with a cotton bud!

 

[homebrewnewb]

Option 4, fling sueball at vendor and make it their issue, pros, no longer your issue possibly outsource, cons, lawyers, cost outstrip parts, etc...

 

[Mardoo]

I see what you did there...

Trust me... I am feeling your pain

I am around 1900 bucks out of pocket on this little clusterfark!.

Eff me, that's awful. I think you're feeling way more pain than me. What was the change in grade of the SS the former supplier used?

 

[BrockHops]

I use ss fittings/bolts/pipe at work, mainly for process water( not food processing)
I use the old PTFE thread tape to seal the join, but it's a pretty good "lubricant"
But on the odd occasion I forget to put jumping grease (anti seize) on my bolts, the nuts just bind up like a mofo...

 

[Pnutapper]

Eff me, that's awful. I think you're feeling way more pain than me. What was the change in grade of the SS the former supplier used?

I am still waiting for an answer to this. I suspect that it was not a permanent change as the parts were date stamped. This is unusual for my supplier. So until I hear differently, I now suspect that they may have had manufacturing issues at the time and outsourced my order to another manufacturer so my order could be filled in time. I have been examining all the parts since the catastrophe and found other odd things. The ball bearings in the snap lock adaptors pictured above are all mild steel and not stainless. The o rings used on the 3/4" threads are not standard etc. etc.

I fear that I may not get an answer though. I let loose with a particularly colorful string of invective when I was told that all of a sudden, after 20 years of loyal custom I now need to use anti seize... Told this after the parts were installed and well bound.

 

[Pnutapper]

I use ss fittings/bolts/pipe at work, mainly for process water( not food processing)
I use the old PTFE thread tape to seal the join, but it's a pretty good "lubricant"
But on the odd occasion I forget to put jumping grease (anti seize) on my bolts, the nuts just bind up like a mofo...

Yes, after reading a whole bunch of stuff on the interwebs since the incident, a lot of US sites have the same advice about thread tape. I have never really thought of teflon as a lubricant, more as a sealing method. I have also used it in the past if I suspect the integrity of a thread (e.g "swarfy" threads etc.)

Visually though, these threads appeared fine when they were fitted.

 

[BrockHops]

Yes, after reading a whole bunch of stuff on the interwebs since the incident, a lot of US sites have the same advice about thread tape. I have never really thought of teflon as a lubricant, more as a sealing method. I have also used it in the past if I suspect the integrity of a thread (e.g "swarfy" threads etc.)

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing...

Yep, seen some pretty rough threads on some 2" stuff we have.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

+

+

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

25 years ago in another life I was a mechanic. We used a mobile thread repair guy to fix all sort of broken bolts, stripped threads even removed a broken easy out once. Maybe someone who has this kind of experience might be able to help.

This guy was in Sydney but I'm sure there will be someone down there.

 

[Pnutapper]

I'm sure there will be someone down there.

Yep... I am onto somebody now, he is coming out tomorrow. For those playing along at home I will report back how he goes.

We tried the heat thing and as @TheWiggman suggested, it did not do much good. (Mind you, I didn't try hooking the breaker bar up to the tow ball on the ute...)

 

[husky]

In my experience any effort to remove will be futile.
I work with stainless a lot and have never come across any grades that do not require anti seize. Maybe you have just been lucky until now and have a bad batch of threads in this instance, once they start to bind its all over!
My experience with seized stainless is usually nylon nuts when someone forgets the antisieze which is an easy grinder job. Yours is a bugger.
Interested to see how you go.

 

[Pnutapper]

In my experience any effort to remove will be futile.
I work with stainless a lot and have never come across any grades that do not require anti seize. Maybe you have just been lucky until now and have a bad batch of threads in this instance, once they start to bind its all over!
My experience with seized stainless is usually nylon nuts when someone forgets the antisieze which is an easy grinder job. Yours is a bugger.
Interested to see how you go.

It is interesting that I am hearing this from so many people now that I have started to investigate...

I have been selling, installing, servicing and maintaining beer systems since 1998 in stadiums, breweries, clubs, pubs, and bars in many places in the world and never once used any form of anti seize on any of the installations I have done. I have never seen any form of anti seize on systems I have serviced or repaired that were installed by others. I have never seen anti seize offered for sale by any of the companies that I buy beer systems fittings from (including the supplier in this little episode. They still do not carry it, but now allegedly "have some on order".) So yeah, I guess I, and every other contractor I have met here in Australia and Asia and New Zealand and Europe have just been lucky.

I have certainly put the word out over the past couple of days to my colleagues in the industry!

I most definitely will never make the same mistake again.

 

[homebrewnewb]

so what's the gist of all this, i mean this could presumably happen to someone like me dicking aorund with stainless fittings, is teflon tape enough?? where is the anti seize goo, is it food safe?
if i get thread stuck in an elbow, im ganna be pissed, not 1900$ pissed, but still... pretty ******.

 

[Pnutapper]

so what's the gist of all this, i mean this could presumably happen to someone like me dicking aorund with stainless fittings, is teflon tape enough?? where is the anti seize goo, is it food safe?
if i get thread stuck in an elbow, im ganna be pissed, not 1900$ pissed, but still... pretty ******.

Not that I am any type of expert on the topic (yet) I reckon teflon tape for what you are doing will be fine mate. Sometimes tape is not practical to use in what I do.

This is the product that has been recommended to me. Although contact with the beer would be minimal, it is listed as being safe for use in breweries.

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_...7697&msdsLanguage=EN_AU&selectedTab=technical

 

[laxation]

What stops you from just going nuts at it with some pneumatic wrench or something to undo it?
I don't quite understand how something like that can't be just undone (albeit with force) - but I have zero science/engineering knowledge whatsoever

 

[homebrewnewb]

have quick wikipeida on galling, the crystalline structure is ruptured, so for all intents and purposes its welded together, pretty interesting but kind of scared to hear a case of it happening just past finger tight that's nqr to me.
disclaimer, what laxation said about science n stuff.

 

[Pnutapper]

What stops you from just going nuts at it with some pneumatic wrench or something to undo it?
I don't quite understand how something like that can't be just undone (albeit with force) - but I have zero science/engineering knowledge whatsoever

For all intents and purposes, it would be like ripping a weld apart,and make the manifold useless. The way things stand, I am still pretty confident of being able to rescue it.

Ideally, I still want to be able to use the female thread in the pipe manifold, even if I need to create a new one by getting another socket welded in as TheWiggman has suggested.

If I can't rescue the manifold I am up for at least another couple of gorillas.

 

[Pnutapper]

have quick wikipeida on galling, the crystalline structure is ruptured, so for all intents and purposes its welded together, pretty interesting but kind of scared to hear a case of it happening just past finger tight that's nqr to me.
disclaimer, what laxation said about science n stuff.

I think the culprit in this case was pressure testing to the MWP which in this case is 60 psi.