Some Questions From A Returning Brewer

[livo]

Hi brewers,
I'm a newby here. I used to brew with a mate years ago and recently started again and so far so good. 4 brews down over the last month and watched the Grand Final yesterday drinking from my 1st and 2nd batches. Not bad at all.

My first question is how long can I keep a bucket of Sodium Metabisulphate solution going for sterilisation of equipment? I mixed up a 20 litre bucket full and I've just been dropping everything in to soak then rinsing in a second bucket of clean boiled water before draining and storing or bottling. I've been doing bulk priming which is working well so far.

Second question is, I've been harvesting my yeast cakes and removing most of the remaining beer and replacing with clean boiled water. I now have a pretty good quantity of nice looking liquid yeast. How much do you use to set another batch of 23-25 litres? How would you go about making a starter? Is it possible to use too little or too much? Obviously I don't have the equipment to do a count.

Cheers
Greg

 

[Bribie G]

Hi Greg, greetings

Like yourself I was a returning brewer (3 years ago) but hadn't brewed since the 1980s and like you I went for the Sodium Met because that's all I knew. However things have moved on a lot since then and Sod Met isn't much used nowadays. In fact I've still got my original 2008 tub in the cupboard :blink:

Better choices are:

Cleaning, de-gungeing, soaking: Sodium Percarbonate (active ingredient of Napisan - it's like solid hydrogen peroxide). Use liberally, just the cheap ALDI one is fine

Sanitising: Starsan, a little goes a hell of a long way. Or some of the other new ones like PWB etc. Starsan is a no-rinse sanitiser and is food grade, so you can soak, rinse out fermenters and they are ready to go next time around, rinse bottles, use out of a spray bottle to instantly zap all sorts of things like hoses, keg lids whatever. I'm on about my fourth bottle in 3 years.

Theoretically you can over pitch yeast, but i wouldn't worry about that. Provided you keep the yeast sealed up in a good cold fridge you can easily start a cupful in a sanitised bottle (V8 heavy glass ones are great) with a couple of dessertspoons of light dried malt extract mixed with 250ml water and boiled then cooled, and they will probably be crawling out of the jar within a few hours. Bit unscientific but IMHO you don't need to be too picky using salvaged yeast, just throw it some food and watch it go in most cases.

 

[esssee]

Greg,

Have been wondering this myself, and found some good info in a Podcast I listen to.

Basic Brewing Yeast Info

Check out three Podcasts from October and November 2005 with the owner of Wyeast. Very Interesting.

 

[Wimmig]

The only thing i have to add to this is drop the SMB and go starsan. Starsan foam makes me smile.

 

[livo]

Ok, Good info there. I'll go looking for Starsan and ditch the SMBS. I hate the smell of it and I've always thought I could taste it as well.

I'll give the harvested yeast a try even though I don't really have to but it's a bit of fun rather than just tearing open a packet.

Thanks very much guys.

At the moment I'm just experimenting with different kits to find which drink I like. I've put down 3 lagers, Morgans, Coopers and a Coles home brand plus a Coopers Pale. The batches I've tried and compared are the Morgan's and Coopers Lagers and even though the Morgans is a good 10 days ahead I think I prefer the Coopers. The Morgans just seems to be a bit too bitter and a touch dry to me. I'm only using 50% of the dextrose to reduce AC a bit.

I've been enjoying the XXXX Gold and VB Gold Mid-strength lately so this is what I would really wish to aim for. I believe Castlemain used to have a kit out but It is no longer available. I've bought a Morgans Queenslander Gold kit so I'm hoping this will be closer. Perhaps someone here can direct me towards a good drop.

I'll make sure I'm on track then start to have a go at some partials then full grain. My father was a good brewer years ago and used to pinch mums nylons and my marbles to make up his wort and stink the house out. When we moved house back in 1973 he had to move 70 dozen longnecks. He still brews today but only kits as he doesn't drink much.

 

[Bribie G]

livo
If you are looking for a midstrength Gold lookalike, I'd spend a couple of dollars extra and get a very pale and very bland kit such as Coopers Canadian, add some Light Dried Malt Extract to bring the wort up to around 1040 then tickle it up with some Pride of Ringwood or Superpride pellets to around 20 IBU ( off the top of my head I'd say that 15g of POR boiled in some wort for about 20 mins should just about get you there).

Then ditch the yeast from the tin and use either S-23 or S-189 lager yeast but ferment warmer than recommended - 17 - for about 10 days. That will give you the commercial "mousey" flavour that you get in most XXXX and Carlton products.
When you go onto partials then sub the LDME with a couple of kilos of Barrett Burston Pilsner malt mashed in an esky whatever, and you'll be getting quite close to the commercial.

One thing you don't need with a mid-strength is sugar or dextrose. I believe that the breweries' mid beers are not just watered down versions of the full strength, they actually contain a larger percentage of malt and hops to keep the flavour, whilst reducing the amount of added sugar to achieve the alcohol drop.

Edit: I suspect that the lighter beer kits also contain other syrups and not just malt. I know the very early Morgans kits back in the days when they were called "Sundowner" (at Beenleigh) you could actually see where a big squirt of glucose syrup had been dropped into the can. So you get enough sugars out of the tin without adding extra.

 

[livo]

OK for some reason I can only edit the front of my post but anyway.
Are you familiar with the SG calculator online on a different site? I just put in some figures and with a 1.4kg kit, no dextrose it would take 1kg of LDME to bring Start SG of 22 litres up to 1040 and with a final SG of 1011, give an AC of 4.3%. I know these are only estimated calculations but does that sound about right to you?

Thanks Bribie, That is excellent info and I'll be on my way sooner rather than later. Mind you this is not the only brew I hope to make but it is what I like to drink.

Brilliant.

 

[kymba]

try cluster for a XXXX gold and POR for VB. The last time i did something similar I used cluster and notto at 18 to get rid of the mouse.

it was a real hit a xmas...amazing how easy it was to drink without the rodent

 

[Janelle Kerr]

Bribi G >
So, Starsan is Aldi version of napisan then? That's handy to know. I do clean other stuff with it so it makes sense.

Yeast, have been thinking about doing that myself. Thanks for the advice

 

[argon]

Bribi G >
So, Starsan is Aldi version of napisan then? That's handy to know. I do clean other stuff with it so it makes sense.

Yeast, have been thinking about doing that myself. Thanks for the advice

Starsan is a sanatiser... napisan is a cleaner with some sanatising properties. They're not a sub for one another.

Napisan (sodium percarbonate) to clean
Starsan to sanatise

 

[crozdog]

keep the SMBS for when you move onto AG & start no chilling. It's great stuff to keep mould etc from growing in stored empty cubes after they've been cleaned out with sodium perc- just add a teaspoon or 2 to a couple of litres of water & seal up. sure they need a rinse & sanitise before brewing - but I do that anyway - but now I know I won't find any unexpected growths in my cubes.

 

[Bribie G]

Starsan

Napisan ALDI

 

[Wimmig]

Bribi G >
So, Starsan is Aldi version of napisan then? That's handy to know. I do clean other stuff with it so it makes sense.

Yeast, have been thinking about doing that myself. Thanks for the advice

Starsan is an acid based no rinse steri solution. You need small amounts, it lasts a VERY long time. Personally, instead of just using PBW for general cleaning i use the childrens version no bleach no scent napisan.

It has a high level of oxy action, and rinses very clean. Just don't leave overnight, a few hours in warm water is ok. Cheap too. 1.7kg cost me about $11.

 

[argon]

Starsan is an acid based no rinse steri solution. You need small amounts, it lasts a VERY long time. Personally, instead of just using PBW for general cleaning i use the childrens version no bleach no scent napisan.

It has a high level of oxy action, and rinses very clean. Just don't leave overnight, a few hours in warm water is ok. Cheap too. 1.7kg cost me about $11.

Why wouldn't you leave it overnight?

 

[livo]

Well Thanks, Bribie G. Your suggested brew is very nice indeed. The only thing I've noticed is that it is a bit cloudier than other brews if I don't pour it completely fairly quickly after opening the bottle. The gas stirs the sediment into solution by itself. Maybe I overprimed or bottled too soon but I didn't think I did. Still a very nice drink and I don't mind the cloud if you drink in the dark.

I have made about 10 batches over the last couple of months and yours is my favorite so far. I have another one ready to take out of Primary now and I've got my fingers crossed it will be just as good but there is one cause for concern.

So far I've binned 1 batch with another one fairly close to the same fate. My first brew was drinkable but I found it a bit "dry" to drink like dry wine or dry cider. The common link is the brand of the kit (Mo***n's). Batch 5 was their Queenslander which is in a bucket in the process of vinegaration to be fed to the horses. It had a disgusting taste of burnt timber, being my best description. Batch 7 is their Bitter which has the same flavour but not as bad. I've tried a couple of bottles and can't yet decide whether or not to chuck it as well. Drinkable but only just in my opinion.

The brew I have in Primary ATM is the same brand Canadian Light whereas last time I used Coopers Canadian Blonde. The latter was not available and the man from the local HB shop said they were the same as they came from the same factory. I'll decide whether this is correct in a couple of weeks. This is my concern and I'll certainly not be purchasing any more of their product should it fail to meet standard. Even then I'm doubtful.

All other batches have been Lagers of either Coopers or Supermarket home brand kits and a Coopers Pale Ale and they have been fine. It is unlikely that I've stuffed up on only the brews using that brand. Is anybody familiar with this "burnt" flavour I'm getting from these kits?