SOLVED - Brand new Buffalo urn won't reach rolling boil

[hathro]

Hi all,

So I purchased a 40L Buffalo hot water urn and I'm currently doing a test run with water. It's been going on full whack for about 2 hours and still hasn't reached a rolling boil. It reached a rolling boil with the lid on but not with the lid off.

The ambient temp is around 26ºC and the water temp in the urn won't go above 92.5ºC .

I'm not sure what to do here. I'm thinking I'm either doing it wrong, or I need to insulate the urn. Pics below and any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Florian]

Not sure about Buffalo, but generally urns aren't designed to keep a rolling boil, they're more a hot water dispenser for tea etc.

In saying that, there's usually is some sort of safety switch thing (boil dry protection or whatever it's called that can or can't be overridden (by a qualified sparky).

Never owned an urn and never will, plus I'm sort of drunk so feel free to ignore my advice.

 

[Econwatson]

The age old trick on the forums is to float a cake tin in the urn, but I am not sure if that will help you gain that much temperature.

I think us Brits use these urns quite a lot. Not sure if there is a boil-dry cutoff trick equivalent for them like us Crown Urn users have, maybe have a google for something to that effect? I see it does have the boil-dry cutoff feature so assuming somebody has figured out a way to remove it. I am assuming all warranty will be void if you remove the boil-dry cutoff feature so I would just try and return it personally.

If you read the manual, it says to turn the unit off if it starts to boil which implies to me that it is not designed for boiling, not sure if the Crown Urns have the same instructions in the manual but certainly something to think about.

 

[technobabble66]

As Florian said, the urns aren't designed to maintain a rolling boil. The fact that it got to a boil with the lid on proves it works, it just loses heat too quickly with it off (same as Crowns & birkos).
So to keep the heat in to get it past 100*C, you'll need to insulate the side of it, & I find I need to also float a small cake tin on top, as Econowatson said above (I have a birko with a wide diameter).

Let us know how you go!

 

[Rambo]

I have the same urn and haven't had problems getting a good boil. Seems from the photo that you don't have much water in the urn, maybe that's making it cut out early.

 

[Jamo]

I have one of these and have done 4 or 5 brews in it. I can get a rolling boil but I need to have the temp set as high as it will go (says 110). The manual with mine says that if you set a temp at or above 100 it will not cut out, but mine will unless it's turned right up. I have had it cut out during the boil a couple of times when I needed to scrape at the element to clean it a bit to get it going again. Each time it only took a few minutes to go again. I haven't made any mods to mine at all. I'm no sparky so I don't know if it makes any difference, but I need to use an extension lead with mine and the one I use is a heavy duty one. I don't use a cake tin or insulation and I leave the lid on while bringing it up to the boil, but then am able to maintain a rolling boil with the lid off.
If none if this helps you may need to look at replacing it.

 

[mxd]

as mentioned above I would also do a bit (quite a bit) of insulation

 

[Ross]

It's sold as a water boiler & should certainly reach a boil easily with the lid off. If it's maxing out at 92C with the lid off - return for a replacement, it's faulty.



Ross

 

[Bribie G]

I know from the UK forums that Buffalo is the Crown / Birko of Pomland and should give a rolling boil. So as Ross says it looks like it's defective, unfortunately. And to the non urn owners who maintain that urns don't do a rolling boil then I must be doing something wrong with mine over the last few hundred brews

Apart from cake tin, another good trick for a more powerful boil is to peg a $7 grain bag a-la-Craftbrewer round the top of the urn to make a swimming pool for the hops (works well with pellets, not just flowers). This not only traps the heat to give a better boil, but as the steam is forced up through the material it give the hops a good boil as well.



CraftBrewer's latest grain bag (the one on the right) is a more robust design with an elasticated top, snaps over the urn perfectly. Out of stock ATM however :angry:

 

[hathro]

Thanks for all the information guys.

From what I could see, the unit didn't cut out - by this I assume it either turns off or it stops producing heat. There were bubbles constantly coming from the element which indicated it didn't cut out.

I also had this connected to an extension cable. I had 20+L in there. This time I'll connect it directly to the power outlet and trial with 30+L of water. If this fails, I'll return it as Ross suggested. I might also wrap it in one of these for insulation and throw in a cake tin, just out of curiosity to see how much effect it has.

Will report back on the weekend.

 

[sp0rk]

grain bags.jpg

I thought you'd just messed your grundies on the left in that pic...

 

[Ross]

Thanks for all the information guys.

From what I could see, the unit didn't cut out - by this I assume it either turns off or it stops producing heat. There were bubbles constantly coming from the element which indicated it didn't cut out.

I also had this connected to an extension cable. I had 20+L in there. This time I'll connect it directly to the power outlet and trial with 30+L of water. If this fails, I'll return it as Ross suggested. I might also wrap it in one of these for insulation and throw in a cake tin, just out of curiosity to see how much effect it has.

Will report back on the weekend.

Hathro - You shouldn't get a drop in performance like you experienced unless you used an incredibly long extension lead. If it doesn't boil properly plugged straight into the socket, don't mess around with cake tins & insulation, you need a new or repaired urn.
All urns should give a good boil with just the lid off.


Cheers Ross

 

[superstock]

grain bags.jpg

Rather not know what you did in the one on the left,but the one on the right looks like my grandmother's bloomers.

 

[hathro]

Hathro - You shouldn't get a drop in performance like you experienced unless you used an incredibly long extension lead. If it doesn't boil properly plugged straight into the socket, don't mess around with cake tins & insulation, you need a new or repaired urn.
All urns should give a good boil with just the lid off.

Thanks Ross. The lead was 5m+. Will try without the extension and if it's still not working, I'll return it.

 

[joshF]

Should've bought a jeep

Sorry couldn't resist. I think some of these temperature sensors and thermostats are very finicky. Think of a car travelling 60km/h compared to the same car travelling 110km/h. If you compare the cars speedo to the km/h on a tomtom/navman etc you'll find that at 60km/h the accuracy reading is very similar but the faster you go, the margin of error changes and the difference becomes much greater.

I know it's hard with the temperature dial/knob without actual temperature increments but maybe checking with a digital thermometer or something at say 40 degrees, 60 degrees and then 90 etc would show you how much the temperature varies. It sounds like when your urn is thinking its at the absolute max ie +100 for boiling temps, it actually isnt.

Since we mainly have the Birko and Crowns here in aus, Maybe check some pommy forums etc to see if there's any override or tricks since i assume there'd be alot more people with Buffalo urns and hence a higher probability of someone with a similar problem as yours? Or worse case scenario, it's faulty

Good luck with it mate

 

[hathro]

Tried it with ~35L while plugged directly into the power outlet and the same thing happened; 92.5ºC.

Here's a video View My Video

I'm going to return it as faulty and get another.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Thermo obviously crapped out.
Some are adjustable with a screw driver, just sets the cut off point.
If unsure dont F with it.
Nev

 

[wynnum1]

Is the thermostat a removable fixable component and not a throw away if breaks.

 

[hathro]

I figure my options are as follows:

1. Return the urn for a replacement
2. Return the urn for a Birko replacement + cash adjustment
3. Refund the urn and buy a 50L stainless steel pot and fit an electrical heating element.

I'm liking option 3 so far. Greatest flexibility.

 

[hathro]

After looking at the urn this morning in disgust, I got mad and made this. Job done.