Crown Urn thermostat prevents reaching mash temp

[Bribie G]

KItchen shop, if you insist on doing a step mash or mashout.
Mine's coming up 8 years old and was perfect for doing step mashes with stirring, but I haven't done steps for yonks.

No need have power on, or to stir mash at all with BIAB in urn. In fact (ed: when doing a single infusion mash) the urn really has nothing to do with the mashing process at all, it's just a container that prepares your strike liquor then does nothing during the mash.

Then when the bag is raised it can go back to doing its urnie stuff.

• Switch urn OFF
• Dough in.
• Insulate. Circle of bubble wrap floating on top of mash. Doonah. Bungie straps.
• Go to the pokies for an hour or so.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

curved roasting rack.jpg

KItchen shop, if you insist on doing a step mash or mashout.
Mine's coming up 8 years old and was perfect for doing step mashes with stirring, but I haven't done steps for yonks.

not even necessary - stirring the mash continuously while the element is on prevents scorching, and I found also that it would result in less starchy material caked onto the element because it brushes it off.

 

[Stouter]

• Switch urn OFF
• Dough in.
• Insulate. Circle of bubble wrap floating on top of mash. Doonah. Bungie straps.
• Go to the pokies for an hour or so.

Or in my case today;

• Prepare hops
• Sanitise my cube
• Taste test a previous batch
• Walk the dog
• Water the garden

 

[Bribie G]

not even necessary - stirring the mash continuously while the element is on prevents scorching, and I found also that it would result in less starchy material caked onto the element because it brushes it off.

Holey bag, batman

 

[PuffinPunch]

You've got exactly the same set up as me, I've never had this scorching build up though. I can see you've also got the false bottom so that should be keeping the bag well clear. What grains are you using?

I got an all grain kit with the urn. It was milled by the supplier so it might be that some of it was ground too fine. More likely that Bribie G has the truth of it though, as the supplier milled it specifically for BIAB for me.

What temperature did you actually start the mash at? With urns I found that you really need to get your strike liquor temperature such that you go straight into a sacch rest, then lag the urn and leave it switched off. Then you can switch on and ramp up to do a step mash or a mashout if you wish (Hochkurz Mash for example).

However starting low (say about 52 degrees for a protein rest) there is a lot of unconverted "free" flour that sticks then burns onto the element.

You can always do a protein rest in an urn using BIAB, just start with a thicker mash and raise to sacch rest temperature with boiling water addition.

Thank you! This is what's been vexing me the most. I've been trying to figure out why something like this would happen when I'm just going by the book. I'd been following some included instructions the store put together, which involved a step mash. Mash in was at 56c, at which point the temperature dropped down to around 52c. It was after mashing in that I found I couldn't get the temperature to go anywhere.

When you say to use a thicker mash, do you mean to get it ground more coarsely? Also are you saying that mashing in a a sacch rest temp (around 66c I think) would prevent this kind of buildup?

Not sure how I'd do an hour long mash at any consistent temperature for an hour with the power off, even with lots of insulation in place. I'll have to do a bit more reading on it all I guess.

Yup. I've done only single infusion mashes at around 66 degrees for a couple of years now and had consistent results with all styles.

Edit, I had a quick squiz at the Probrewer forum where US pro micro dudes hang out and the jury is out on step and mashouts, especially when using modern malts.

That little I've read suggests the same regarding the jury being out. The irony to my situation is that I was just following the home-brew store's attached documentation to the letter, thinking this would be the best way to avoid disaster!

stir the mash the whole time the element is on, if you want to prevent scorching.

Yeah this was my strategy. Unfortunately, ant the picture in my earlier post soooort of shows it, there are few holes around the edges of the strainer which makes the kind of rapid circulation I need difficult.

Maybe next time you could put something under the side of the urn to give it a slope to minimise anything settling on the element during steps.

Thats a good idea. I'm thinking I might just run some cord through a few holes in the strainer so I can pull the whole thing up occasionally to stir at the base.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

throw the base away, that's what I did.

 

[PuffinPunch]

curved roasting rack.jpg

KItchen shop, if you insist on doing a step mash or mashout.
Mine's coming up 8 years old and was perfect for doing step mashes with stirring, but I haven't done steps for yonks.

No need have power on, or to stir mash at all with BIAB in urn. In fact (ed: when doing a single infusion mash) the urn really has nothing to do with the mashing process at all, it's just a container that prepares your strike liquor then does nothing during the mash.

Then when the bag is raised it can go back to doing its urnie stuff.

• Switch urn OFF
• Dough in.
• Insulate. Circle of bubble wrap floating on top of mash. Doonah. Bungie straps.
• Go to the pokies for an hour or so.

Yeah you might be on the solution. I think the main issue is that the strainer i have doesnt allow the level of circulation needed to keep sediment off the element. Something like that is open enough to allow it, and all I need is enough coverage to keep the bag off the little disc in the middle of the urn base so it doesnt melt or burn.

Or in my case today;

• Prepare hops
• Sanitise my cube
• Taste test a previous batch
• Walk the dog
• Water the garden

I brought a book and a bottle of my last extract brew out with me to relax and read while the urn plodded along predictably. Ha!

 

[Bribie G]

When I said "thicker mash" I meant less water in the mash to start off with, then use boiling water to get it up to sacch rest. German breweries do this.

 

[Stouter]

I got an all grain kit with the urn. It was milled by the supplier so it might be that some of it was ground too fine. More likely that Bribie G has the truth of it though, as the supplier milled it specifically for BIAB for me.

Same thing for me when I purchased the urn (part of the deal), must have even been the same supplier.


Mash in was at 56c, at which point the temperature dropped down to around 52c. It was after mashing in that I found I couldn't get the temperature to go anywhere.

Put you bag in and get your water up to about 66-67C, then stir in your milled grain, get all the dough balls out, recheck your temp. You shouldn't have to raise it more than 1 or 2 degrees at the most. Pull the plug. Then like Bribie said, insulate it, I just use an old sleeping bag and over the hour I might lose about 1 degree.
After an hour, crank that baby back up (my dial is set at 105C for a boil), and let it roll.

Step up to step mashes after you've done a few single steps first. Get some easy successes under your belt, you'll enjoy it more.

there are few holes around the edges of the strainer which makes the kind of rapid circulation I need difficult.

I leave that strainer in during the mash, but the comment by Liamsnorkel makes perfect sense.
I usual pull mine out before the boil.

I'm thinking I might just run some cord through a few holes in the strainer so I can pull the whole thing up occasionally to stir at the base.

Cooking string works well. I've bent the end of some Stainless rod into a hook and fish it out which works ok too.

 

[stm]

Just do what Bribie says when it comes to Crown urns, as he is the expert. And KISS.

Use the roasting rack he suggests. Just do a sacc rest at say 66, which means you want the strike temp of the water ("hot liquor") to be say 69, then turn off the element, THEN mash in (put the bag in, pour the grain in and stir). Leave the element off, put the lid on, insulate with doona or sleeping bags and leave alone for 60-90min.

(And it is easier to clean the concealed element by first squeezing lemon juice on it, and let soak for a while. No need for bicarb and elbow grease.)

 

[Stouter]

Just do what Bribie says when it comes to Crown urns, as he is the expert. And KISS.

Prexactly!

 

[MHB]

Not much cleans scorched wort faster than Oven Cleaner, just spray the black bits leave it for the recommended time and it will mostly rinse off.
Works even faster if you can warm up the urn a bit (put some water in, heat it, tip out the water, wipe and spray).
Mark

 

[Stouter]

I reckon as long as I keep doing as Bribie prescribes I'll have no dramas with having to clean my concealed element.

• It makes sense.
• I never have to clean it differently to the rest of the urn.
• My brews are getting better each time.
• Bullet point format is good for lists, 90% of the time it works every time.