Single Hop - First recipe feedback...

[Panoramix]

Greetings!!

In a attempt to start discovering the different flavours & aroma of hops, maybe a single hop not a bad idea... Amarillo? Citra? Simcoe? .... Amarillo it is...
Does this below looks it might become drinkable if brewed...
Mashing at 68Deg. BIAB
Probably splitting the batch into 2 fermentors, one with dry hop with another 10g.. the other one without.


3.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 46.2 %
2.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 2 30.8 %
1.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC) Grain 3 15.4 %
0.50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4 7.7 %

20.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.4 IBUs
20.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 13.4 IBUs
10.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 5.3 IBUs
10.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 3.2 IBUs
10.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Antwerp Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP515) [50.28 ml]


Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 %
Bitterness: 39.3 IBUs
Est Color: 16.6 EBC

 

[mstrelan]

Too many different base malts. Too many hop additions. Not enough dry hops. Someone else will give you more specific suggestions.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

American hops + Belgian yeast = pig's breakfast.

Lots of people have tried to make this work, nobody has succeeded. If you want to try an example of how it goes wrong, try White Rabbit's "Belgian" pale ale. A beer that can't make up its mind what it is (other than dreadful).

Also I agree with the above: 30min, 20 min and 10min additions? Pick one and try it.

General rant: FFS peeples, either state the total volume or give us the adds in g/l. Since we have no idea what your efficiency is the figures above are mostly useless. /rant.

 

[manticle]

While I have had some US hoppy belgian style beers that worked (both hb and commercial) they are rare and even when good, they were not usually as good as either quality US or Belgian.

I'd go a different yeast and save the antwerp for something else.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

American hops + Belgian yeast = pig's breakfast.

Lots of people have tried to make this work, nobody has succeeded. If you want to try an example of how it goes wrong, try White Rabbit's "Belgian" pale ale. A beer that can't make up its mind what it is (other than dreadful).

Haha. I've actually payed the ridiculous price over the bar for White Rabbits. Rather than main stream stuff. I take it as a poor mans Saison thang. I prefer the Dark Ale. I prefer that yeast character in dark ales.
For yeasts like that give it just one bittering addition. It seems to clash with late hopping, maybe, I only wrangled with those yeasts a few times and it is an acquired taste thing.

 

[Panoramix]

Ok, well noted for the yeast, make sense!
I thought multiple hop addition would build a bit of depth?

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I thought multiple hop addition would build a bit of depth?

I have heard many people say this but I have yet to see any actual evidence for it.

I have also yet to see any plausible mechanism by which it would occur.

As always happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I prefer the Dark Ale. I prefer that yeast character in dark ales.

AFAIK the WR dark ale uses an English yeast. I don't see the 4VP and 4VG you'd expect from a POF+ Belgian yeast in that beer.

That being said, there are yeasts used in Belgian beers that don't display evident POF+ characters: for example neither of the yeasts used in Duvel would appear to produce much 4VP but legendarily they are both derived from a Scottish mixed culture.

 

[fdsaasdf]

I have heard many people say this but I have yet to see any actual evidence for it.

I have also yet to see any plausible mechanism by which it would occur.

As always happy to be proved wrong.

This correlates with my first-hand experience (e.g. single big 10 min addition for my no-chill APA) and discussions with local QLD brewers about their recipes.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

AFAIK the WR dark ale uses an English yeast. I don't see the 4VP and 4VG you'd expect from a POF+ Belgian yeast in that beer.

That being said, there are yeasts used in Belgian beers that don't display evident POF+ characters: for example neither of the yeasts used in Duvel would appear to produce much 4VP but legendarily they are both derived from a Scottish mixed culture.

I'm not worthy! haa. Thats a fact I'm just a home brewer. I'm not up with all these abbreviations either.
It all went over my head and I don't want to google everything to translate. Its just more taps on a keyboard I may have a bad habit.
Not just me think about the audience.
Please spell it out. That's just a general call cry.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Sorry mate.

4VP = 4 vinyl phenol, produced by POF+ yeast when coumarate is present (and coumarate is always present). Smells to me like a pair of Dunlop volleys your house mate hasn't taken off since you moved in.

4 VG = 4 vinyl guaiacol, produced by POF+ yeast from ferulate. Ferulate is generally present, level depends on mash temperatures and malts used. This is the spicy / clove like aroma of many Belgian beers (and wheat beers).

"POF+" simply means the yeast has the gene for the enzyme* required to produce these flavours. POF = Phenolic Off Flavour so it wasn't named by a Belgian. "POF-" means the yeast lacks the gene for that enzyme: most standard ale and lager strains are POF-.

* = Ferulate decarboxylase.

As an aside: most wine yeasts are POF+ and the pectinase enzymes most commonly used to help clarify white juice have cinnamyl esterase activity so they produce coumarate which is then transformed to 4VP during fermentation. As a consequence it's really common to see low levels of 4VP in commercial white wines.

 

[Blind Dog]

If it's your first recipe, keep it simple. One base malt plus 5% ish of caramel is plenty, or just go 1 base malt. Bittering addition (ie start of boil) to get 30% to 70% of your IBUs and a 10 minute (from end) addition for the rest. Simplistically and very generally, the % IBUs you go with on the bittering addition will define the bitterness and hop flavour profile of the beer. At the lower end, the beer is balanced more towards hop flavour with bitterness in the background (e.g. APA) at the top end the bitterness is lingering and hop flavour more subdued (e.g. English best bitter).

Dry hopping at about 1.5g/litre should work if you're after an English best bitter profile, but double that rate (or more) for something closer to an APA.

Anyway, that's my 2c

 

[Panoramix]

Thanks you all, well noted, will amend and report!

 

[Rocker1986]

Whenever I'm testing out a hop I'll use 20-25g of it at 5-10 minutes and at flameout (20 min steep), and make up the rest of the bitterness to about 37-38IBUs at 60 minutes with either the same hop if it's good for bittering, or if not then something neutral like Magnum. I also dry hop with 40-45g of the hop being tested. American ale yeast, currently using 1272. These are for 25L batches of APA style beers. Malt bill is simple, generally Maris Otter, and a bit of Munich and crystal. I no-chill my beers hence the really early and late hop additions with nothing mid boil. Works for me to see what flavour and aroma a hop variety contributes.

 

[yankinoz]

American hops + Belgian yeast = pig's breakfast.

Agree where most Belgian yeasts are concerned and especially if they add funk or that quality strangely known as horse blanket, but I've had very good if nonconformist saisons brewed with assertive, fruity yeasts, American or otherwise. Brooklyn's Sorachi Ace is a good example. Reportedly, some Belgian breweries now brew them, but I haven't tasted any.

For the poster's purposes, a more neutral yeast would be best.

 

[mstrelan]

I happened to really enjoy Green Flash Le Freak which I believe uses a blend of American and Belgian yeasts, with American hops, but I definitely agree that OP should use a neutral yeast like 1056 / US-05.

 

[Panoramix]

Thanks Rocker, will follow, fit the idea perfectly!

 

[mongey]

American hops + Belgian yeast = pig's breakfast.

nt.

I really like stones cali belgian ipa

 

[Matplat]

I would also drop the mash temp to 65-66.

An OG of 1.060 at that mash temp is gonna leave a very chewy beer.

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah agreed on the mash temp. I don't brew mine that strong either though, usually around 1.048-50 for the OG. Mash around 66-67. Generally 85%MO, 10% Munich and 5% crystal medium. I brewed a couple late last year which were single hopped with Citra and Simcoe respectively and they both turned out really nicely and gave me a good idea of what those hops are like. It's fun to experiment.