Sanitisers And Their Dilution Ratios

[PistolPatch]

After searching this topic, it is very hard to find dilution ratios for sanitisers and sterilisers. Also found a lot of ratios were conflicting. Thought it might be handy to have a thread that has dilution ratios backed up by a little science. I'll do household bleach below. Can anyone do an accurate version on Napisan or other common products?

Household Bleach

Dilution Ratio and Time (Use Cold Water Only)

Sanitiser - 0.5ml Per Litre (10ml per 20 litres) for 30 to 60 mins.
Heavy Duty Cleaner - 3ml Per Litre (60ml per 20 litres) for 12 hours.

Background Information

Household Bleach is powerful stuff! It takes only 0.25ppm of chlorine to sterilise distilled water. Household Bleach usually contains 5% available chlorine. The above ratio of just half a ml per litre will yield about 25ppm. Soak time should be 30mins to an hour.

A stronger solution of 3ml per litre for 12 hours will remove the most hardened residue from inside glass fermenters and airlocks. Avoid such a long soak for plastic fermenters as it is unnecessary and the bleach may taint the plastic.

Household Bleach works by releasing hypochlorous acid when combined with water.

For those that use pool water to sterilize, chlorine ratios are usually less than 5ppm. This, contact with sunlight and other factors makes this method questionable.

Rinsing

With the milder dilution rate above, either drip dry or rinse off with hot water.
With the stronger solution rinse with hot water until the chlorine smell is removed.

Beware

Free available chlorine becomes unstable and ineffective in sunlight and warm water hence the recommendation to use cold water.

High dosages in warm or hot water can release odourless, poisonous gases.

Chlorine is corrosive to stainless steel and should therefore only be used for say 5 minutes at the lower dilution rate.

Source/s

The Complete Joy of Home Brewing by Charlie Papazian.
Various web sites

 

[pint of lager]

Have a read of these articles.

From the brewery.org articles and http://www.birkocorp.com/brewing/cleaning.asp]Birko.[/URL]

Trying to achieve a definitive listing is tricky. If your source is talking about bleach in America, is this the same strength bleach as in Australia?

Make sure you understand the terms cleaners, sanitisers and sterilisers in relation to homebrewing. The above links will discuss them.

Do a search on the ahb site for iodine, there was an excellent thread that discussed this in depth with different links.

Do a search on sodium percarbonate, or napisan, it also comes up regularly on this site.

I think sosman did also cover this thoroughly in his brewiki site, also John Palmer would have discussed it.

 

[warrenlw63]

A rough rule of thumb for most sanitizers from my own empirical experience and I'm still alive to tell the tale and haven't infected too many beers (touch wood). :lol:

Bleach, even though I don't really use it any more I used at the rate of 30ml per 25 litres of water (usually unscented homebrand). Always rinse it off afterwards or your fermenter will smell like a swimming pool. Some of the more premium lines of bleach seem to warrant using less because the possible stronger concentrations. Others may have a better idea of this. :unsure:

Iodophor which I use now exclusively I use at the rate of 1ml per 1 litre of water. At these concentrations you don't really need to rinse (guess why I use it? ). Just let the equipment drain.

Napisan which I use for cleaning kegs and the krausen line of glass carboys I add at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 litres of (warm to hot) water and let it soak overnight. Always rinse this out afterwards with some cold water and sanitize with the iodophor.

Not the most scientific of methods but seems to have worked pretty well thus far.

Warren -

 

[stephen]

Going along with this thread I would like to ask others in the brewing world what their thoughts, experiences, knowledge etc on Pink stain or Neo Pink or whatever else it is called.

First off, I have two lots of this stuff with two different instructions for use: One say one tablespoon per 3 liters, the other says one teaspoon per five liters of water. (There was a third one with another ratio but I have lost the container.) What would be the best concentration?

Secondly. Both recommend rinsing off with water. This seems a bit counter productive since it is supposedly rated as a sanitiser and then I'm supposed to rinse off with unsterilised water! Can this stuff be used as a no rinse sanitiser similar to Iodophor or should all traces be rinsed off?

I'm not having any problems, just curious.

Steve

PS I'm using the one teaspoon/5 liters at the moment which seems to be working.

 

[PistolPatch]

Excellent sites thanks Pint! I'll be reading right through both of those links and your other suggestions. Also thanks Warren for the info. Might make iodophor my third chemical!

I spose the reason for starting this thread was that I have searched extensively on this site for napisan and had to go through a billion posts before I even found dilution ratios. Then, like Steve above, I found that the info was conflicting. Also, until recently, I wouldn't have even known what iodine, isophor etc. were!

I thought it must also drive the more experienced people like yourselves mad answering the same old questions! Would be nice to have a good airlocked post on this that would give newbies a good guide on 3 or 4 sanitisers that they could rotate with and as you say add info on whether they can be used as cleaners and/or sanitisers. From what I've read sterilisation is unneccessary and difficult. Common brand names could be included e.g. White King is 4.2% not 5%.

Anyway will research all your suggestions above and more over time and take some notes as I do. Hopefully in a few months I'll come up with something that may be of benefit for the newbies like myself and that the mods may deem as being worthwhile adding to the FAQ's.

How presumptuous am I!!!


Cheers all!

 

[pint of lager]

There is a big difference between sanitiser and no rinse sanitiser. In any reading and research, you have to work out what is being used as a cleaner, what is being used as a sanitiser and what is being used as a no rinse sanitiser.

Bet the links in the brewery.org site keep you occupied for a while. The links section on AHB also have lots of reading in them.

Many of the detergents and cleaners used do a good job of sanitising the surface, but of course, the residual will leave a flavour in your beer, and rinsing the cleaner off will leave the surface at the same level of sanitation as the rinse water. This may be ok for kit and kilo brewers who usually use plain tap water to make their brews up, but all grainers (who have worked alot harder and longer on their brews and the brew has been boiled) tend to make the extra effort and use no rinse sanitisers.

Discovering and using a true no rinse sanitiser is one step in making your brew day easier.

No rinse sanitisers that brewers commonly use are 70% ethanol, hydrogen peroxide, iodine and phosphoric acid. The residual left when using it at correct no rinse concentrations will not affect the flavour and yeast in the beer. Commercial brewers use peracetic acid. What sanitiser you use will depend on what you can obtain cheaply. There is no right sanitiser

Do change your cleaner and sanitiser from time to time. This stops a bug from developing resistance in your brewery gear.

Many brewers take great care to use a non bleach source of water and they would regard the small amount of bleach when used as a no rinse sanitiser with suspicion.

Neopink or PSR is a great cleaner, but must be rinsed off, so of course your final level of sanitation is that of your rinse water. My rinse water is tank water so I always use a no rinse sanitiser. The level of useage I have seen is 1-2 teaspoons per litre of hot water, which is the rate I use when washing bottles.

Sterilisation is usually carried out by yeast farmers on small bits of equipment in a pressure cooker.

If you ever get a chance, have a read of George Fix's book, "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques" which is currently out of print. It has an excellent discussion about sanitisers.

 

[PistolPatch]

Once again, cheers Pint. Your posts are ALWAYS clear and informative. And, yep, that brewery.org will probably keep my mouth shut for days! Just about to get into it now.... the reading, not the drinking! <_<

 

[Simon W]

Stephen, interesting mix ratio's! I have a tub of Pink Neo from TWOC, it has a 'Deliverance' label and says to use one teaspoon per litre.
I rinse twice with boiling water.


I've seen iodophor mentioned a lot around here, might have to try some, is it only available at HBS's or can it be bought elsewhere?

 

[pint of lager]

Once again the search function on AHB comes up trumps.

When searching on the word iodine, you will find that there are a lot of hits. Go for the threads that have iodophor or iodine in the topic title and have plenty of pages. This means you will have lots of information to chew through.

link 1

link 2

If you live in an area where there are diaries, you can access from produce stores iodine and phosphoric acid based sanitisers. These come in 5 litre and 20 litre drums and makes for splitting up with buddies.

Otherwise, buy Betadine from the chemist. Check around for the 500ml bottle, $19,95 last time I bought one, contains 10% w/v povidone iodine, dilute at the rate of 2.5ml per litre, contact time 10 minutes for 99.9% kill rate (from George Fix, Analysis of Brewing Techniques")

 

[Simon W]

I did do a search, always do, but while skimming thru the posts I couldnt see any mention of alternative sources. Thanks POL.

 

[poppa joe]

Went to a dairy supplier stuff called TERMINATOR .
Owner a homebrewer .But could only buy in 20 lt.
Any one use the Morgans stuff. Just got a bottle to try.?
chers PJ

 

[PistolPatch]

Hey Poppa. Yep I've had the Morgan's but at $7.50 giving you only about 8 litres of sterilser it seems to be a bit of a rip off compared to Pint's suggestion above of Betadine yielding 200 litres. Have no idea what Terminator is but if it's something to do with dairy, it's probably going to be good! Cheers mate!

 

[poppa joe]

PP
Paid $4.95 for Morgans First time use .
Terminator is Iodophur Idophos OR whatever
Also looking for better ways.Made a sterilizer out of Windscreen washer motor, cake tin n a few other pieces,seems easy so far..
Look at Betttadine...
cheers
PJ

 

[stephen]

Otherwise, buy Betadine from the chemist. Check around for the 500ml bottle, $19,95 last time I bought one, contains 10% w/v povidone iodine, dilute at the rate of 2.5ml per litre, contact time 10 minutes for 99.9% kill rate (from George Fix, Analysis of Brewing Techniques")

[post="105485"][/post]​

[/quote]
POL

The betadine mix referred to above, is it a no rinse sanitiser? ie. mix, rinse and go for it or does it still need to be rinsed off? I only ask, as I stated in an earlier post, that using PSR is great for cleaning but somewhat defeats the purpose of sanitising as it has to be rinsed off with water.

Steve

 

[pint of lager]

Betadine (brown bottle which is 10% w/v povidone iodone) mixed at 2.5 ml per litre is a no rinse sanitiser. 25 ppm. Contact time is 10 minutes, then let it drain for a few minutes and use the brew gear.

The rates I am using come from "Analysis of Brewing Techniques."

Have a read through the threads I posted, there is a link to an excellent article from Bay City Mashers about using iodine as a no rinse sanitiser.

The instructions for PSR are very misleading in respect to it being a sanitiser. I am certain it does a great job sanitising, but of course the sanitation of the surface reverts to whatever your rinse water is. Most people use a reticulated water supply which will have a high level of treatment and good sanitation. It is the people on tank water or poor quality water that will be caught out.

 

[stephen]

Betadine (brown bottle which is 10% w/v povidone iodone) mixed at 2.5 ml per litre is a no rinse sanitiser. 25 ppm. Contact time is 10 minutes, then let it drain for a few minutes and use the brew gear.

The rates I am using come from "Analysis of Brewing Techniques."

Have a read through the threads I posted, there is a link to an excellent article from Bay City Mashers about using iodine as a no rinse sanitiser.

The instructions for PSR are very misleading in respect to it being a sanitiser. I am certain it does a great job sanitising, but of course the sanitation of the surface reverts to whatever your rinse water is. Most people use a reticulated water supply which will have a high level of treatment and good sanitation. It is the people on tank water or poor quality water that will be caught out.

[post="105636"][/post]​

POL

Thank you for the information and the time to respond to my request.

Steve

 

[technoicon]

Would be worth noting in the original post that Bleach should Never be used with Aluminium. I stuffed a pot because of doing this. It's a pretty obvious mistake. but needs inclusion imho.

 

[lagers44]

Will add this to the mix for those that want to use Iodophor, I found it quite interesting.

link

 

[gravey]

A group of guys from Brew Adelaide simply went and bought 30L of Food Grade Phosphoric Acid and split it amongst us. The cost was something like $5 for 500ml. Considering you only need 1ml per Litre and it can be re-used it will last me an eternity. I just make up a 20L batch using 20ml and have been using the same batch for a few months now and have only lost a couple of litres. You do have to be careful with the non-diluted stuff though

 

[Kingy]

Old thread but I'm sick of searching.
Ive had a break from brewing due to other commitments and my starsan lid broke and shit went everywhere. I went to get some more but was sold sodium percarb as a sanitized.
On my way home I remembered it was nearly like nspisan.
It says to rinse with cold water also? Isn't this just adding chances for infection.
I would've thought it was a cleaner not a sanitizer.
Can someone clear me up on this stuff.
Think I'll order some starsan actually.