I can't bleach it's not StarSan

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Nullnvoid

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The water in Geelong is very soft so the Starsan (or equivalent) will last a while. There is a test you can use to see if it's still viable, one of the members who used to be here use to mention it, I'll see if I can find it.

We use starsan right throughout the house, on everything, and it's magical stuff. You shouldn't actually use it in dosage rates higher than it says as it can start to eat away at the materials.

A bottle lasts forever, I bought an extra one at the start of this apocolypse as our consumption increased dramatically and the new bottlemay very well not be used for years (might have to sell it I think).
 

kadmium

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I never thought about using it for glasses. Great idea tbh.

Was thinking about what to wash my beer glasses with. Perfect idea.

Great for baby bottles and things too.
 

Nullnvoid

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I never thought about using it for glasses. Great idea tbh.

Was thinking about what to wash my beer glasses with. Perfect idea.

Great for baby bottles and things too.

Yep when my daughter was born, all her bottles were sterilised in star san.

We have a stainless steel bench and that gets cleaned with Starsan, which is good because it is also a rust inhibitor and keeps it looking schweet!
 

peterlonz

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Hello fellow drinkers

Some of you regulars will remember my posts in regard to using chlorine at various dilutions as a disinfectant. To say I was hounded about this is an understatement. Almost without exception, what everybody said was correct. I am on a learning trail at the moment. The purpose of this post is not to go on about chlorine, however I still use it in certain circumstances and it has many benefits.

Many talked about the Star San and other similar products and I recall my reply was that to use it at the dose rate recommended on the bottle, and to have my fermenters exposed to that ratio for one minute, i.e. 60 L fermenters, makes this option extremely expensive. I was then advised, and again I believe correctly so, that I do not need to fill the entire 60 L fermenter and leave it sit for one minute and that I just needed to wet the surfaces and allow that to sit for one minute.

The same principled discussion was used in relation to disinfecting kegs and bottles and several people said the same thing and the point of this post is, that I was advised I can disinfect a bottle, then pour that into another bottle, and pour that into another bottle and so on. It is reasonable to assume that same principle could be applied to kegs. My point, and I can hear everybody say, for crying out loud get to the bloody point is that, how many times can you do this before the star San becomes in effective? Further, how do you know at what point it becomes ineffective.

At least with chlorine, and I’m not promoting this at all but just making the point, the nose knows when it is ineffective. The same applies to sodium Metabisulphite. So I guess I am saying that I am not sold on star San unless somebody has an answer for me and given the amount of implements that need sanitising and I am one of those wankers that if I am told 10 mil per litre is sufficient, I will do 20 mills per litre to be sure …!!! I am planning now on getting a 20 kg bag of sodium metabisulphite ($50), which also is a “non-rinse” solution and does not have the corrosive effects that chlorine does on the alloy kegs. I would be interested in people’s opinions on this plan of attack. Now remember, we are all friends here, and we must take turns in the sandpit and play nicely together, or Miss will get grumpy at us and we might get spanked!!!.
I have no problems with your suggestions. BUT like you I am a bleach fan & I use it about 50;50 diluted with cold tapwater. Exposure need only be about 1 minute & the surfaces must be continually bathed by manipulating the vessel.
Only warnings are: Must not be used on stainless kegs, use safety specs when handling strong bleach (just in case).
I rinse out with hot water from the hot water tap (sometimes twice) until the nose tells me it's clean & zero chlorine smell.
 
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I learned to brew in the 90s, out of Charlie Papazian’s books. Not much internetty wankery back then. No such thing as StarSan or PBW, at least where I was.

Charlie recommended chlorine as a sanitiser. Used it for years. BUT - brewing systems in place then were largely plastic buckets and glass carboys. Diluted chlorine bleach is generally fine with those materials. And the chlorine itself evaporates readily at room temperature (that’s why cats will drink the standing water out of the toilet, if you let them - they don’t like the chlorine that’s added to our water supply). And even so, Charlie warned against the dangers of pitting stainless steel through using bleach, way back then.

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DTee

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I'll probably get bombed for suggesting that Jasol 42% phosphoric acid is about the cheapest sanitizer available. If you need bubbles add a few mls. of the Star San type sanitizer.
I pay $30.17 for 5 litres. Check the ingredients in Star San.

Not an organic chemist - but I don't believe phosphoric acid on its own is an effective food use sanitiser. From what I understand the main function of the phosphoric in Starsan is to maintain a sufficiently low pH environment for the dodecylbenzenesulfonic to sanitise/kill bacteria.

Like I said - not a chemist, don't know for sure, so I stick with Starsan.
 

peterlonz

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Star San is very suitable for all brewing purposes I can think of.
BUT it's not low cost.
Bleach is about $1.00 per litre & readily available at all pool shops - pretty damned low cost!
The only other factor to consider when using bleach is: do you have sufficient hot water to do the final rinsing out?
No point in using cold tap water, you are aiming to sanitize, & tap water can support pathogens. That said I brewed for many years using cold tap water, I don't take that (small) risk anymore. All my cold tap water is 0.5 micron filtered.
 

butisitart

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Star San is very suitable for all brewing purposes I can think of.
BUT it's not low cost.
Bleach is about $1.00 per litre & readily available at all pool shops - pretty damned low cost!
The only other factor to consider when using bleach is: do you have sufficient hot water to do the final rinsing out?
No point in using cold tap water, you are aiming to sanitize, & tap water can support pathogens. That said I brewed for many years using cold tap water, I don't take that (small) risk anymore. All my cold tap water is 0.5 micron filtered.
not knocking the bleach (don't use it, don't know anything about it),
but my $12 starsan from 2015 has sanitised EVERYTHING for over 5 years and i've still got 25% of the bottle. i think it's a 200-250ml (the label drifted off it years ago). maybe you can say that starsan is not cheap per litre, but it's easy to use, super efficient, and i don't know how much cheaper you can get
 

Nullnvoid

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Star San is very suitable for all brewing purposes I can think of.
BUT it's not low cost.
Bleach is about $1.00 per litre & readily available at all pool shops - pretty damned low cost!
The only other factor to consider when using bleach is: do you have sufficient hot water to do the final rinsing out?
No point in using cold tap water, you are aiming to sanitize, & tap water can support pathogens. That said I brewed for many years using cold tap water, I don't take that (small) risk anymore. All my cold tap water is 0.5 micron filtered.

Umm...you may have inhaled much bleach fumes.

Bottle of star san currently is $6.45 for 500ml.
At the rate of 1.5ml per litre, there is 333 does per bottle.

That's 0.019cents a litre?

1 litre goes a long way and depending on application can be reused.
 

GalBrew

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I make up 10L of Starsan and reuse it for at least 6 months. The pH has never drifted above 3.5 in this time and works fine. Its as cheap as chips, don't know why you would risk ruining a batch of beer by using bleach.
 

mje1980

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I had a 5 litre bottle of iodophor from an ag shop for I think a decade, and I wasted a lot of it. Worked great, I have star san but think I might go back to iodophor. Was pretty cheap too from memory. I liked that you could see from the colour how strong it was.
 

zoigl

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PHOS ACID 42% - Jasol
Phos Acid 42% is a yellow liquid, pH <1.0 S.G. 1.26 Phos Acid 42% is formulated on a base of phosphoric acid, blended with surfactants, specifically designed for the acid cleaning of food processing equipment. Phos Acid 42% can be used to clean equipment such as pasteurizers, cream treatment units, vacuum pans, concentrators, pre-heaters and other high temperature processing
Sanitizing with Phosphoric Acid | Community | BeerAdvocate
20/4/2012 · 5 Star does in fact offer phosphoric acid sanitizer without the detergent; I forget the name right now but it is marketed as non-foaming Star San (for CIP, etc). Phosphoric acid will do the job alone, but the foamy stuff will do it a little faster. If price is a concern, you can get basically the same stuff at most agricultural supply stores, marketed as 'foaming milkstone remover' or equipment. Phos ..


STAR SAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid. This synergistic blend provides a unique killing system that is unaffected by excessive organic soils. STAR SAN is also a self-foaming sanitizer. It can be applied through a foamer to produce self-adhering sanitizing foam for external sanitation.

2-Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid | C18H30O3S - PubChem
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid is a colorless liquid. It is soluble in water. It is corrosive to metals and tissue. It is used to make detergents.

I use Phosphoric acid with a small addition on star san, it seems to work for me, and as it is so cheap, I don't worry about throwing out a mix after it has been used once or twice. I don't like the amount of foam that is in star san.
 

Vini2ton

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Like a bunch of old sheila's at sponge competition. "Plain flour must be sifted with the right hand or it doesn't rise properly!" Many roads lead to Rome. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Lots of stuff works fine for lots of people. I might do a trial run using just detergent and rinsing with tap water, just to see how long it takes for an infection to occur. Nah, couldn't be bothered. Yawn. When's this covid shit gonna end. Maybe I'll gargle some starsan.
 

MashBasher

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So in summary of all that has gone before. I'm sure we can all agree on these:

Keep it clean and sanitary.
Use something that works.
Use something that is cheap.
Don't use chlorine bleach on stainless.

Works for me.
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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Not sure how long it will last but I use about 1.5ml per batch of beer (1.5 ml diluted with 1-litre water in a spray bottle) which is enough to sanitise all bottles, kegs, fermenters equipment etc. So a $6.45 bottle of 500ml Stellar san should last me about 300+ batches of beer.

It costs less than 2 cents per litre, so even if you use twice as much as needed you are only going to spend 4, maybe 5 cents per batch of beer and if you want you can store it for next the batch, but at 3 cents per batch, doesn't seem worth it to me.
Wow, My post clearly got a few fellow drinkers active on this sit e which is NEVER a bad thing. zoilg, my questions is, how many times can you do this and how or when do you know the product is not from age...not effective
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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I'll probably get bombed for suggesting that Jasol 42% phosphoric acid is about the cheapest sanitizer available. If you need bubbles add a few mls. of the Star San type sanitizer.
I pay $30.17 for 5 litres. Check the ingredients in Star San.
I just replied toi your first post mate and if my issue is considered not relevant in terms of know the duration of it efficacy then any heads up about getting STar San at the best price I am sure will be very much appreciated by most. cheers
 
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