Saison Yeast Characteristics

[Jagungal]

I am planning to brew a Saison on the weekend. The yeast I had was a little old, so I started to build it up a couple of weeks ago. I went from 50Ml to 150Ml .. then about 500 Mil and now up to 2L.

This last addition does not seem to be going off that much and when I smell it, it seems cidery. Thinking about it, it does not seem to have formed a foamy head that I sometimes expect in a starter at any time during the whole process.

I am starting to think the starter may be infected.

Does anyone know the expected characteristics of a white labs Saison yeast ?. Is it natural for it to have a cidery smell and not form a foamy head ?.

Anyone got any opinions on whether it is infected. I have a couple of backup dry yeasts that I could run with but they are not going to be the same as a saison.

 

[Adamt]

Have you tasted it? I'd imagine a sour taste would give it away.

Never used that yeast though.

 

[newguy]

I don't have experience with the white labs strain(s), but I have used one of the wyeast varieties. I've tasted quite a few other examples made with wyeast. Saisons are funky. Reeeeeeeeaaaaaally funky. I had one at a competition that my judging partner flat out refused to taste because it smelled a hell of a lot like the malathion that my mom used to spray on our trees to kill caterpillars. I did taste it, and it honestly tasted like it smelled. Depending on the fermentation temperature, you can get mild to over the top phenols, some sourness, and other things like esters from the saison yeasts.

Build up the starter one more time then allow it to settle and decant a bit of the liquid to taste. It's probably okay.

 

[Sammus]

I recently made 2 saisons with the wyeast belgian saison variety, the starters were built up at room temp (probably about 20) and tasted/smelled fruity and spicy in a really good way. towards the end of fermentation it gets a bit of a sulphury kind of gross smell, but it pretty quickly dissipated. both beers were fermented at 24C and that just increased the funky saison flavours. there wasnt anything cidery or sour or anything like that though, a bit spicy and fruity though, id say if you get anything that smells lethal and chemically theres been an infection or somethings gone wrong.

 

[Stuster]

It's hard to build up a starter from such a small step, and very easy for it to get infected in the first stages. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of krausen. It may be simply that you missed it, or there could be some residue on the vessel you are doing the starter in. Pour out a little, give it a really good smell, give it a taste and maybe even take a gravity reading on it. I did one starter once and thought it was infected. I took a gravity reading and it was still at 1030 which sealed its fate.

 

[newguy]

id say if you get anything that smells lethal and chemically theres been an infection or somethings gone wrong.

I wish that was the case. However, there are 3 other guys I know who have used the wyeast 3724 (just looked it up in my brewing notes - couldn't remember offhand before) and ended up with the same result: chemical beer. :icon_vomit: I know more people who have poured out entire batches made with this strain than those who drank it.

One of these people remembers when the strain first became available, and he said it was a superb yeast. Then he said "something" changed and it became what it is now (or was recently - I haven't tried it recently).

 

[tangent]

PM The Drunk Arab!

I think it was his Saison that I tasted a while back (courtesy of DrGonzo) and it was spectacular!

One wine dude said "fu<king hell! I've heard about barnyard characteristics, but this is the first time I've smelled and tasted a whole freakin' barnyard!"

 

[newguy]

One wine dude said "fu<king hell! I've heard about barnyard characteristics, but this is the first time I've smelled and tasted a whole freakin' barnyard!"

Have you ever left a bottle aside for a few days and discover a fuzzy black mould colony at the bottom? Well, at one competition I was at, I was given a glass of beer with one of those "caterpillars" floating around in the glass! :angry: I can't remember the style, but it wasn't supposed to have barnyard flavours. This particular beer sure as hell did.

Remember to visually inspect your bottles folks.

 

[Sammus]

My pack was dated sep 06 I think and I used it about a year later. I never got any barnyard flavours either thankfully.. I think they do another belgian yeast with brett and whatnot mixed in too? Don't think the pure yeast itself is meant to make your beer taste like sucking a sweaty horse blanket... tbh I dont know why anyone would want their beer tasting like that...

 

[newguy]

Don't think the pure yeast itself is meant to make your beer taste like sucking a sweaty horse blanket... tbh I dont know why anyone would want their beer tasting like that...

Ah, brettanomyces. It's an acquired taste. Actually, if you find a lambic, buy it. In that style, sweaty horse actually works.

 

[Jagungal]

Thanks for all the replies.

I am pretty sure that it is infected now and I suspect the cause is a small fruit fly and a change in starter technique.

I had a look at it again last night, lots of fizz but not real yeasty smell. I took the advice here and poured a glass and had a sip. The taste was very sour, I spat it straight out.

As for the cause, when shaking it up, I spotted something small and black floating in it. When tipping the starter out I took this small back thing into a teaspoon for a closer look. My guess is that it is a fruit fly but I am not totally sure. Whatever it is, it is foreign to the beer and should not have been in there.

One thing I did change is the way I make starters. After listening to how others do it, I did this one in a coke bottle with the lid slightly unscrewed to allow gas release but hopefully not to allow anything else to enter. I did it this way because I have moved house not too long ago and could not be bothered trying to find out the location of the 5 Litre demijon I usually do my starters in.

Back to the old and tested way for starters from now on.

The good thing is that the weather in Sydney is nice and cool for the next few days. I got some dry yeast and will tweak the recipe for some kind of pale ale.