Recirculating - How Much Do You Do?

[HoppingMad]

Hi guys, this is a question I should know the answer to after all the AGs I've done now, but you're never too old to learn a thing or two.

Talking to a fellow ag'er the other day (who batch sparges like me) about recirculating the water out of your mash tun back over your grain and through again. Turned out he recirc'd quite a bit, and I only did a little. I mash in a keggle with a screen from G&G and he uses pots with a larger screen from G&G as his vessel is wider.

I realised that my setup tends to clarify really quick which is why I don't tend to really recirculate - I tend to only recirc about 4 L through, pouring the water over a rice cooker lid with keeps my grain bed very much intact. His takes some time to clarify, and he uses a shower head sprinkling directly onto the grain.

In terms of recirculating, is taking too little 2L jugs of fluid out from the mash tap and pouring back over the top too little? Should I be draining the equivilent of all water out of the mash and sending it back through?

What are the benefits of recirculating in a big way? Is recirculating purely to clear the wort or are there other benefits to doing this well?

I don't own a pump so am curious as to what benefits those guys get from running the pump through the mash a few times. Have witnessed this happen in the larger breweries too so there must be some reason to do it.

Hopper.

 

[Pennywise]

Id like to know more about this too Hopper, the 2nd time I used my MT I sort off fly sparged half of it and was going to re-circulate some too, but didn't (mainly due to not knowing what the hell I was doing). It'd be good to know peoples experiences and eff with different amounts of re-circulation with differnt types of screens or manifolds. I reckon we could always do with that extra % eff if we can get it predictable.

 

[Plastic Man]

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page...wing-radio-2007

The batch sparging interview on BBR with Denny Conn is a good listen (BBR 12/4/07). From memory his advice is, "if there are no chunks your good to go...". I use an esky with a stainless braid set up and find it clears pretty quick so pretty much use Denny's advice. I've always wondered if I should be recirculating more but beer turns out OK so have never worried too much.

 

[brendo]

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page...wing-radio-2007

The batch sparging interview on BBR with Denny Conn is a good listen (BBR 12/4/07). From memory his advice is, "if there are no chunks your good to go...". I use an esky with a stainless braid set up and find it clears pretty quick so pretty much use Denny's advice. I've always wondered if I should be recirculating more but beer turns out OK so have never worried too much.

Pretty much the method I use... I just keep recirculating until the wort is nice and clear and there are no husks or particles coming through. Once this has happened, I just switch over to the kettle and go until she stops.

Brendo

 

[manticle]

As above. My wort usually seems pretty clear almost straight away so I'm about 3-4 litres (sometimes less).

 

[Jez]

i get pretty clear runoff nearly immediately too with my braid/copper manifold combo so never used to really vorlauf more than 3-4 litres.

then I read this and the bit about recirculating:

http://labrewer.blogspot.com/2009/02/and-t...ibute-beer.html

I don't recirc the whole tun like they suggest but the wort defintely gets much clearer and less murky after 10-15 litres or so. Only takes a few extra minutes and like they say, I know what I'd rather be putting in my kettle.

Jez

 

[devo]

I just run my pump for 15mins. Clears up real good.

 

[amiddler]

OK, so perhaps I'm recirculating to little. I go until all big lumps of grist are gone but the wort still looks murky and not super clear. Should I be recirculating more? Feed back Please.

Drew

 

[churchy]

I usualy run off a litre or two till the bigger bits of grain have gone.Having a little bit of smaller grain escape into the pot wouldn't matter would it?What are the reasons for preventing grains being in the boil off?






Andrew

 

[rude]

I use a braid esky single infusion batch sparge

1 litre vouloff (spelling) but lately I have been a bit impatient 700ml but till it runs clear

When I went to a HB demo my HBS recirculated several times during the mash but that was in a bucket of death style where the wort sits on the bottom about 2 litres of it & he was keen on recirculating heaps during the mash.

 

[rwmingis]

I've heard the recommended minimum is 3-4L but you'd be surprised how much doubling that will clear your wort.

I now recirculate with a pump. When I sparge I keep the flow rate the same, about 3-4 L/min, and what doesn't go into the kettle recirculates back into the tun. It comes out very clear, but I think this hurts my efficiency though.

At risk of getting too technical, I'll try to explain: normally, when you fly sparge, you get a vertical sugar gradient in the grainbed; ie the wort coming out the mash tun drain is sugary, but the bit at the top is nearly water. When you recirculate heaps, it's sugary all the way through because it's mostly mixed, so when you stop sparging (ie you hit the preboil gravity) there's still a bit of sugar throughout the tun. I think the key is to use the minimum amount of water possible when sparging (just enough to cover the grain bed)

Anyone had a similar issue?

Cheers,

Rob

edit - wort not word

 

[devo]

It's obviously going to take much longer if you are using the hose and jug method although when I used to employ this method I did it for approx 15min. When I use my pump I aim for the clarity in the attached url/pic.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...si&img=1535

 

[raven19]

Anyone had a similar issue?

Yes, when previously doing double batches I would fly sparge, hence washing sugars off with straight water.

Now that I mainly do single batches, I batch sparge as its easier for me and my current system. Hence every time I do another sparge, I stir up the whole grain bed, then let it rest, then recirc again for a while... so it seems like I am forever pouring wort back into the MT!

On the other hand, Butters is a fan of recirculating the whole first runnings in a batch sparge situation, iirc from our recent discussions at a brewday. I cannot recall his reasoning for it though...

At the moment I am not too fussed on clarity of the wort though, more interested in the flavour... give me time though! :lol:

The solids and break seems to settle nicely in the bottom of the no chill cube, then the fermentor anyway and never makes it to the keg...

 

[hughman666]

I usually go until its clear, this normally takes me 5-10 Litres and then its good to go.

 

[HoppingMad]

This is interesting guys cheers. It appears that perhaps the longer you recirc the clearer you can get.

Never thought about it this way - always figured "What the hell it's clear now and don't see any grain residue anymore - and don't want temp to drop off, so she'll be right to go to the boiler now".

I've always found it interesting batch sparging (using a hose and jug method) how you get quite dark first runnings and then lighter runnings afterwards.

Someone touched on Butters method of draining everything through but no one could say why this was a good idea. This still has me curious as to what those benefits might be. More sugars/efficiency perhaps? Must be a reason why someone with a pump would recirc for 15 minutes.

Anyhow, thanks for affirming that I'm not the only one running off 4litres to clarify, just thought I'd check I was definately going about it the right way and not a freak of nature!

Hopper.

 

[sanders4_]

Was talking to the brewer at a micro in town about this - and he routinely recirculates via pump for about 10-15 minutes - he waits for it to get REALLY clear. Granted this is a 500L mash tun - but his rationale was that it helps get a better malt profile - so there is another reason, besides clarity for recirculating longer.

 

[Kai]

Doesn't matter how much volume you recirculate, the most common thought is until your wort is free of grain particles. If you can recirculate till the wort is clear, that's great, but I'm not sitting there with a jug and hose for the time it takes... a couple jugs, no chunks and off to the kettle.

If it's a little cloudy (and if there's still a few bits of grain getting through), really the biggest impact you're going to notice is more trub in the kettle.

 

[Guest Lurker]

I dont think you can view each process in isolation. How much effort you put into recirc depends on how you crush and how you boil. I like to crush to flour, I dont recirc till clear, but I boil the absolute crap out of it for 80 minutes with the NASA turned up to 11. If I was one of those whacky zany "less is more, 10% is magic" boilers, I would have to revisit the other parts of the process.

 

[np1962]

Someone touched on Butters method of draining everything through but no one could say why this was a good idea. This still has me curious as to what those benefits might be. More sugars/efficiency perhaps? Must be a reason why someone with a pump would recirc for 15 minutes.


Hopper.

I think Raven may of mis heard/understood what butters was saying, having brewed with him several times I can tell you he recircs until no large particles coming through, wort not absolutely clear,4-5 litres I would say. (or until some is spilled on muckey's feet )
This is also as far as I take the recirc, beer is clear in the bottle/keg and tastes great and that is all I care about.
I would say there is more than one way to do this and whatever you do to get good beer is the right way.

Cheers
Nige

 

[Fourstar]

Pretty much the method I use... I just keep recirculating until the wort is nice and clear and there are no husks or particles coming through. Once this has happened, I just switch over to the kettle and go until she stops.

Brendo

Depending on how concerned you are with a little extra protein/cloudyness getting across into your boiler i'd just follow the DC process as brendo does. If you want a little extra effort to remove the extra cloudyness, Once i get to this stage (cloudy/light haze) i recirc around 3-4 more L and by this time its usually running uber bright. I use a 1L jug when i recirc and i usually complete the process around 6-7 times. If i ony had a larger jug i could do it in 1/2 the steps!

Oh, another thing to note, dont be heavily concerned about disturbing the top of the grainbed if its deep. Most of us are filtering through a grainbed around 1ft deep, you should only be concerned about disturbing if your grainbed is shallow and only several inches.