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Question About Coopers Kit (temp) And Intro

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c0z

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hi all
sorry i haven't searched this as hard as i would like too, but it i thought i'd use this question to tell abit about what im doing and a HI to all. (i'm also after a quick answer arn't we all!!!)

bought a coopers kit, got it rockin then came to the internet and started to learn hehe probally the wrong way round but at least i got a test run outta the way.......well, ALMOST,
heres the problem/question fermented for one week kept perfectly between 22 and 24 by heat mat and a blanky at night (to stop the drop in temp as the bath tub is a cold place at night! [canberra]) 1040 start 1009 ish finsh tested on fifth and seventh day (sunday) now the beer/fermented wort is cloudy and milky and hardly any of it has 'dropped' i have been told to leave this for another week SHOULD I LET IT COOL OVER THE WEEK OR LEAVE IT AT 22 or 18 or what???

will this result in bad taste? especailly after bottleing and heating the bottles back upto 18 ish for secondary?
(using plastic first time out but have 100 tooheys old longys for the next ccouple)(iwanna brew back to back with one fermenter before i start another)

spose its not one question but a stosh of questions.........................

PS. loving this beer brew game
 

Steve

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CoZ
When you rack to secondary keep it in the laundry or spare room thats just sitting at room temperature (probably a heated room being in Canberra). It will be fine. Leave it in secondary for 3-5 days then bottle. Once bottled, also store these at room temp. Wait a couple of weeks and then chuck one in the fridge to sample. If possible why dont you try brewing in the laundry or spare room at room temp (18 degrees is ideal brewing temp for ales). instead of in the cold bathtub - that way you wont need the heat mat? Good luck....
Cheers
Steve
 

c0z

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hmm not upto bulk racking yet. i will be bottling from the fermenter first time round.
room temperature fluctuates less in my bathroom then anywhere else (best insulated. rental property is freezing!) so typical room temperature in my house is between 8 (laundry without dryer on early morn FREEZING) and 30 (heater and oven on in small house) room temperature in bathtub is about 11 - 13 beer sits higher when fermenting but otherwise that is room temperature heat pad under fermented wort keeps the brew at 18- 19 without my help (current temp) awaiting a bit more info on this topic. (i kept it at 22 - 24 for seven days tho).
so it fermented at 22 -24 and i have let it drop too 18 -19 i want to bottle it at this temp and keep it here for a week or so in bottles. but i want it to clear out if i let it go colder (in fermeneter) will it have any adverse affects?? should i keep it at 18 or 22? (i am keeping it in fermenter till bottling this weekend unless advice suggests i should bottle now to avoid bad beer.
 

Steve

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CoZ
My personal opinion would be to bottle it now - as you said its down to 1009 - its definately finished. Brewing it at 22-24 and then dropping it to 18-19 wont have any adverse affects at all.... How many days total has it been in the fermenter?
 

apd

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c0z,

Keep it around 20*C during secondary, even if you can't rack it to another container.

I'm fairly new at this too but as far as I'm aware, racking to a secondary fermenter does a couple of things:

1. Gets the beer off the trub that has settled out during primary fermentation, thereby avoiding autolysis.
2. Stirs up a few of the yeasties so the SG may drop by another couple of points.

Considering you don't have another fermenter, just leave it another week or so before bottling.

Cheers
 

dickTed

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Hi cOz. Is that just coz?

Coopers instructions are misleading. They obviously want to make it sound quick and easy - like a monkey could do it.

The recommended temp range is too high - but gets the job done faster.

They also recommend adding sugar or dextrose.

You will have a beer that's drinkable, but a bit too tangy.

To improve your future beers you should ferment longer and cooler,
add malt extract instead of sugar or dextrose, and consider racking to a secondary fermenter for 2 or 3 weeks.

Good drinking just coz.
 

c0z

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cheers for the info and help lads !!!!!!

steve: its was in for 8 days at 22 - 24 then yesterday i let it drop to 18 and thats where it is at currently.

apd: i wil keep it as high as i can (once bottled) with out getting hot spots from light bulb i am using as a heat light it will prolly be around 18 - 20 degrees and for 7 - 14 days. then i will prolly store it at 8 - 10 degress for following months (remaining life).

i would prolly rack to another fermenter if it indeed had 'trub' but this is sort of my problem it hardly has any sediment at the bottum of the fermenter it hasnt 'droped' from the lliquid even tho fermentation is finished.
while bottling the yeasties should get a stir (carbonation drops)
i am leaving it the extra week as such starting yesterday but i am

worried about the temp should it be 24? 22? 18? room temp 12?

whats autolysis? is it when light wrecks the yeast? also how often does light wreck yeast am i better of painting the fermenter black? (the blanket helped keep it dark during fermentation but now i have removed it, but the blinds are shut in this particular room although there stil is light its not direct sunlight or anything) bottles will reside in bathtub in crate with a desk lamp to keep em warm.
 

c0z

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dickTed said:
Hi cOz. Is that just coz?

Coopers instructions are misleading. They obviously want to make it sound quick and easy - like a monkey could do it.

The recommended temp range is too high - but gets the job done faster.

They also recommend adding sugar or dextrose.

You will have a beer that's drinkable, but a bit too tangy.

To improve your future beers you should ferment longer and cooler,
add malt extract instead of sugar or dextrose, and consider racking to a secondary fermenter for 2 or 3 weeks.

Good drinking just coz.
[post="67657"][/post]​
yep yep gathered as much except i heard that below 18 will kill the yeast? i mean obviously if im using a good liquid yeast or a larger yeast it wont but the copers packet yeast might?? or am i misled?

my next beer will hopefully be a tooheys old clone yes i will use malt and i will ferment at 16 -18 for longer.

eventually i will rack to second fermenter but at the same time if i had a second one i would have a fermentation in it! (eventual goal) but i will keep bottles at 20 odd degrees for 2 weeks for secondary. will that still work.?

cheers for help!
 

apd

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See Mr Palmer's excellent book, How To Brew, for a quick explanation of autolysis:

http://www.howtobrew.com/glossary.html

I prefer my beer without yeast innards, thank you very much.

Having said that, I think it takes a while for it to happen and you should not really worry about it. I've done 9 home brews in the last 12 or so months. The most important thing I've learnt from here and other web forums is that there is a lot of stuff you can worry about that you don't need to. Just relax and let the yeasties do their job.

Don't worry to much if it's 18 or 22 or 20, as long as it's as stable as possible and around 20*C. Like dickTed said, the instructions are misleading and Coopers probably wants you to ferment it quicker so you go and buy another kit. More money for them, shittier beer for you as higher temps make off flavours.

I don't think the light from a globe will affect your beer. I think it's direct sunlight that has more of an effect. Don't quote me on that one though.

And I don't think temps under 18*C will kill the yeast, they'll just work slower and possibly go dormant. If that happens, bring the temp back up into the correct range to get the yeast working again. The thing you risk if your wort ferments too slowly is that an infection will take hold. There's another thing that you can worry about ;)
 

BeerIsGood

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Just an aside... If you want the little "" for degrees, eg. 18C -- press and hold your "Alt" key, then type 0176, then let go of the "Alt". Once you've ed a couple of times, it becomes second nature. I'm an engineer - does it show? :D
 

barls

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what if the key board doesnt have alt
 

dickTed

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just cOz

Forget about autolysis. That's what happens when the sugar gets a bit scarce, and the active yeast begins to partake of dead yeast. Ruins the beer. Hence the purpose of racking - but it's safe in primary for a couple of weeks. That is, if you stop trying to heat it up. Throw the Coopers manual and the heat pad out into the garage.

Freezing the yeast might kill it, but room temps in winter will only slow it down or stop it. Racking to secondary can get it going again - slowly. Second purpose of racking.

During summer, my beers ferment at 24C, but at the moment I have 2 both showing 14C. Thanks BeerIsGd

I'm not saying temp isn't important, but you'd be better off figuring out how to keep those fermenters cool during the summer than warming in winter.

BTW I rack for neither of these above reasons - but simply because I get less sediment in my bottles.

Hope that helps.
 

deadly

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Just an aside... If you want the little "" for degrees, eg. 18C -- press and hold your "Alt" key, then type 0176, then let go of the "Alt". Once you've ed a couple of times,
THE BEST ADVICE EVER! -thanks :D
 

BRAD T

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Steve said:
CoZ
My personal opinion would be to bottle it now - as you said its down to 1009 - its definately finished. Brewing it at 22-24 and then dropping it to 18-19 wont have any adverse affects at all.... How many days total has it been in the fermenter?
[post="67654"][/post]​

I am not so sure that it has finished, I have done a few Coopers Kits and most of them come down to 1006, unless of course you have put in any other additives that you haven't mentioned. My advice is to pay the money for a cube from Bunnings and rack it and leave it for a couple more weeks. It has got well below zero the last few nights and this may have slowed down the ferment.
 

c0z

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PROBLEM
i am pedantic and like to do things proper and as perfect as posiible (holding myslef to a decsent level) but wanna get my practises down pat and proper before becoming a master brewer you know checking the chute before jumping so to speak

ANSWER
"theres prolly no need to worry about all this stuff"

----------------------------------
heres the problem/question
----------------------------------

FACTS
1. wort has been fermented for one week kept perfectly between 22 and 24 by heat mat and blanket (sunday to sunday)

2. SG 1040 and FG 1008 tested on fifth and seventh day (sunday)

3. blanket has been removed and wort has been at idle since monday at 18 (current temp)

4. now the beer/fermented wort is cloudy and milky and hardly any of the sedimanet has dropped i have been told to leave this for another week and i will be.

QUESTION!
SHOULD I LET IT COOL OVER THE WEEK (room temp 12) OR LEAVE IT AT 18?

ISSUES
will this result in bad taste? especailly after bottleing and heating the bottles and wort back upto 20 ish for secondary? (in bottle)




NOW SAME QUESTION DIFFERENT WORDING

FACTS/ISSUES
so it fermented at 22 -24 and i have let it drop too 18 -19 i want to bottle it at this temp and keep it here for a week or so in bottles(secondary). but i want it to clear out!
QUESTIONS
1. if i let it go colder (in fermeneter) will it have any adverse affects??
2. should i keep it at 18 or 22? (i am keeping it in fermenter till bottling this weekend unless advice suggests i should bottle now to avoid bad beer.

NOW SAME QUESTION DIFFERENT WORDING (2)

i am leaving it the extra week (to drop or settle) as such starting monday but i am
worried about the temp should it be 24? 22? 18? room temp 12?

i would prolly rack to another fermenter if it indeed had 'trub' but this is sort of my problem it hardly has any sediment at the bottum of the fermenter it hasnt 'droped' from the lliquid even tho fermentation is finished.


ASSOCIATED QUESTIONS
1. will light coming in the windows around the blinds wreck my yeast?
2. would painteing the coopers fermenter with black spray paint be better for UV reduction?
3. anyone done a tooheys old clone i am thinking of using a tin of OLD dunno what brand yet and a kilo of malt this time instead of coopers brewing sugars. fermentig for 2 weeks at 18 this time.
4. will packets yeast die below 18 degree's? (i assume not maybe it would just slow the fermentation)

BRADT i have it on a heat mat fermented it at 24 for 6 days now its at 18 also is a 'cube' just a bucket with airtight lid?

PS BeerIsGood and so is this --> :0


ONCE AGAIN SHIT HOT INFO AND HELP FROM YOU BEER GUZZLERS!
 

JasonY

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If you are confident that the fermentation is complete (and it wounds like it has) then just let it cool. This will help the yeast flocculate and at the lower temp the yeast will be less active hence reducing any chance of autolysis if it was going to happen.

If you have a 2nd fermenter rack it into that. You could also add some finings to help it clear ~2tspn gelatin in a cup of hot (not boiling) water gently stirred into the top of the beer.
 

c0z

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JasonY: I am confident that it has fermented (or is fucked ).

1. so i've let it cool to 18 and i should let it drop to about 12?

2. when i bottle will it be fine to bring it back upto 20 for secondary?

i only have one fermenter but cannot quite see then need for a second unless it had another wort in it fermenating. or if i had too much trub

3. does 'finnings" refer to just gelatine and water? also when should i add this? while it is cold? after primary fermenatation and before secondary? would you use it on a dark ale like an old?

i know i sound annoying but i am intrigued! why didnt someone introduce me to this beer thing when i was young! well younger
 

JasonY

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1) Yes
2) Yes but you can bottle at 12degC
3) Yes Gelatine & Water, add to fermenter a day or two b4 you bottle (obviously fermentation has finished by then). You don't have to use finnings or you can use them in whatever beer you like.
 

c0z

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sweet man sweet i will turn heat pad off tonight and let it drop to about 12 by tommorow morning add finnings tomoroow night and bottle saturday night sunday morning then put my light on my bottles to bring them upto temp for the carbonation drops to work.

thanks for info i imagine i will be a frequeant at this site from now on.
 

Spun

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G'day coz, I'll have a go at your "Associated questions".

1: I don't think light has much effect on yeast, it does however have an effect on the hops (here's some recent research on the topic).
2: I'm guessing yes, but unless your fermenter is in direct sunlight I wouldn't worry about it. If it bugs you try draping some cloth over it (gotta be better than risking nasty paint chemicals getting into your beer!).
3: Never tried one so no help I'm afraid (maybe try asking Colin in the Kambah brewshop for a recipe?).
4: If the temps get too cold they tend to go to sleep. To kill them you would have to freeze the wort (you can even get away with this if it's only partially frozen - happend to a lager I did last year).

Hope this helps
 

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