Professional Vs Amateur - Competitions

[petesbrew]

I don't see why you can't enter. I suppose we're going on your word that you've done it in a coopers kit or whatever, and not grabbed one off the bottling line. (but why would you?)

As to the "unfair advantage", I guess it's all relative. Some of us have a bucket & spoon, others have a fully automated system. Some of us have been brewing for 3 months, others for 30 years.

Then there's the recipe debate - did you think this one up from scratch, use one from a recipe book, or just dump in a FWK?

I'm looking forward to getting the tasting notes from the judges these days. The last few comps the notes were a great help. But if I see one of my beers has beaten a pro brewer or a very experienced amateur, it's all good!

 

[RdeVjun]

OP, perhaps you'd fare better if the comp was promoted as Pro-Am. While most brew comps aren't delineated as such, I feel professionals would have an unfair advantage.
As an aside, here in not- so- sunny Qld, QABC (Qld Amateur Brewing Championship) is implicitly an Amateur comp, however the rules don't actually state that it is only open to amateurs, just residents of Qld. I guess that means pros can go hard, FWIW... :blink:

 

[hazard]

I voted yes.

1. The definition of preofessional is that you are doing something for money. I assume that no-one is paying you to make home brew, so I reckon you are still an amateur home brewer. In fact, is a professional home brewer even possible?? If you make beer in a commercial brewery, when you aren't at home, well so what. Does this mean that every employee of every brewery should be banned from home brew competitions?? I don't think so.

2. I don't see what advantage you have over anyone on this forum. Anyone can go and do a brewing course, we all choose the amount of time we want to dedicate to this game and if someone chooses to spend less time then they can't say someone who works harder is a cheat. Sort of like cricket - I should be captain of the Australian cricket team, the only reason that Ricky got the job is that he is better than because he practices all the time - he's a cheat by dint of this practice!!!

3. I have seen many people diss VB/ Tooheys/ etc etc etc on this forum. SO how can anyone say that professional brewers have an advantage? If commercial beer was always better thaqn home brew then I would still refer back to point 1 - doesn't matter what you brew at the brewery, what you do in your laundry is a different bucket of wort. But since most of us actually believe home brew is better than commercial beer, why would anyone think that you have an advantage??

 

[Bribie G]

:icon_offtopic: My toucan headbanger stout came in the top half of the strong stouts field in the Nats two years ago

Seeing as a main objective of comps is to improve the quality and range of home brewed beer (and not so much to win the kegerator or the trip) - and I believe that this is definitely what is happening - then maybe there should be a requirement that all entrants are prepared to publish their recipes and procedures. So if someone from a micro wins a class then they can share their secrets with the rest of us.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

:icon_offtopic: My toucan headbanger stout came in the top half of the strong stouts field in the Nats two years ago

Seeing as a main objective of comps is to improve the quality and range of home brewed beer (and not so much to win the kegerator or the trip) -

" Kegerator and trips" , shite I am entering the wrong comp. I get pieces of paper and the occasional trophy, you bloody rich Queenslanders.
GB

 

[geoff_tewierik]

I have brewed at home, I have brewed in a microbrewery, I am a university qualified microbiologist, I have worked in biotech and in pharma fermenting yeasts.

Does this make me an amateur or a professional?

I consider myself a brewer. Neither amateur nor professional, home or craft, I am just a brewer.

If someone who works for a brewery, and there's a shit load of different jobs at a mega swill brewery these days, brews a beer at home on their own equipment using the same ingredients we all have access to then they are eligible for any amateur comp IMO.

The use of amateur in titles of competitions has been to exclude the professional brewers from entering their beers into the competitions. They have access to a multitude of competitions specifically for brewers to enter like the World Beer Cup and the International Beer Comp, you know ones that brewers like Grand Ridge flooded with entries years ago so they could get awards that were then plastered all over their packaging.

 

[Bribie G]

 

[bradsbrew]

I am a university qualified microbiologist, I have worked in biotech and in pharma fermenting yeasts.

geez Geoff you dont come across as that well educated. You hide it quite well :lol:

 

[RussTaylor]

ANAWBS has this condition - 2.Only amateur or homemade products may be entered, and all entries must be submitted in the makers name.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

geez Geoff you dont come across as that well educated. You hide it quite well :lol:

It's always hard to get away from my born and bred bogan roots, and you only see me with a drink or two under my belt, so its even harder to not channel my past.

 

[DU99]

my question is whose going police it if it does happen,what to stop the professional getting there mrs to put in an entry.this is a subject that should be up at the next conference,next thing we will know, people will say judges cant put an entry in the sections they are judging......beerfest is nearly here lets see what pans out..

 

[petesbrew]

View attachment 43582

Recipe please!!!

 

[DU99]

 

[bradsbrew]

Why?? how is this any different to someone who enters using a kit? The wort is still essentially created by someone else in both scenarios, however the individual is responsible for fermenting it (including yeast choice) and finishing the wort (steeping more grain, late/dry hop).

Yes there is a great deal you can do to a FWK to change ie: adding hops, steeping grains different yeast, different temp etc. But it's called a brewing comp not a fermenting comp. I personally would not feel right if i was to buy a 20L FWK throw it in a fermenter with some yeast and enter that into a brewing comp because I did not brew it, but that is me.
To me entering a comp is all about the thought process, reading the style guidelines and trying to match ingredients and brewing temps and times with what is expected of the beer in judging, that is the challenge for me.
I also see extract brewing as pretty much the same thing as AG brewing as it is made from unbittered extract and all additions are calculated and made whilst brewing.
And if someone can make an award winning brew using a kit they must have also put a bit of thought into it too.


This is just my opinion. And I enjoy brews from all forms of brewing that I have mentioned, I just dont agree that a full FWK brew should qualify for entry.

Cheers

 

[jayse]

Homebrew is homebrew

A couple stupid things to think about, kits, extracts, fresh wort kits are all cool, what if the brewer that brewed them fermented them at home? they have just used their commercial equipment to produce the wort, everyone else can enter it.
If the fresh wort kit or any kit is something they make to sell to homebrewers even if in limited supply, would that be right for the brewer to use it?
Of course pinching 20 odd litres of wort from one of the commercial beers and talking it home would be pretty questionable, but what if you rang up a couple homebrew pals because you actually do have some wort they can have.
Maybe there is a little bit left in the tun at the end of one brew, can you take it home and boil it up for a comp?, maybe not but can you call up your mate and give it to him? maybe, blurry line, fine line, I don't know.

By some peoples reasoning that you can't have used any commercial equipment etc to make the beer then you can't use some of the ingredients that they themselves can.


Its got a few fuzzy areas but if its a homebrew its a homebrew, maybe dr tim might enter a kit one year.

 

[Paul H]

geez Geoff you dont come across as that well educated. You hide it quite well :lol:

Yes he's certainly not as stupid as he looks

Cheers

Paul

 

[geoff_tewierik]

Yes he's certainly not as stupid as he looks

You'll keep big boy.

Your personal trainer letting you out this Thursday night for BABBs?

 

[browndog]

geez Geoff you dont come across as that well educated. You hide it quite well :lol:

:lol: :lol:

 

[haysie]

Voted no, but not really sure what is a professional brewer, maybe its just me being a doubting thomas. Homebrewers whom have access to professional lab equipment via their workplace doesnt seem right nor does brewing at "professional" places on their gear then claiming them as homebrew cut it with me. Wortkits? Kits? it wasnt homebrewed, it was fermented, add water etc, so no! I guess Homebrewing doesnt define between wort production or fermentation, so yet another wide field in the world of competitions.

 

[manticle]

Voted no, but not really sure what is a professional brewer, maybe its just me being a doubting thomas. Homebrewers whom have access to professional lab equipment via their workplace doesnt seem right nor does brewing at "professional" places on their gear then claiming them as homebrew cut it with me. Wortkits? Kits? it wasnt homebrewed, it was fermented, add water etc, so no! I guess Homebrewing doesnt define between wort production or fermentation, so yet another wide field in the world of competitions.

What about having access but not using it? For example, I've seen thirstyboy's laundry set-up and it's not really any more flash than yours or mine apart from the beerbelly mash tun.

Presuming his comp beers are brewed there rather than using the CUB lab/brewery, how would you feel?