Professional Vs Amateur - Competitions

[browndog]

I voted yes, you definintely are a professional brewer as you do it for a living, but I could not give a toss about that, as long as you brew at home then it's all good by me. Knowing there are pros entering comps just makes it feel even better when you get a place

I don't agree with fresh wort kits though.

cheers

Browndog

 

[barls]

i remember a similar argument a couple of years ago about should k&k be in the same comps as ag. this came up after someone won a comp with a kit and soooo many bleated it was funny, was even funnier when the guy posted the recipe which could be compared to shuttle launch procedures. could be the same with fresh wort kits.

personally i dont see a problem depending on the conditions laid down by the people running the comps.

 

[gone_fishing_]

But why have a kit only category? I have seen, and tasted, many kit beers that have won categories in comps.

It does happen occasionally like floods and earthquakes. Not the norm though. I suspect the classification is to encourage those brewers who only use kits to "haveago"

Interesting that I sat at a table of a winning "kit" brewer at a comp. He went on and on and onabout how kits can win comps. It was only once i asked him how he made such a fantastic beer that he revealed that you just add steeped grain mixtures and hops .

Its akin to "amateur" brewers using commercial brewery ingredients or equipment to score well in a comp. I would call it cheating
GF

 

[barls]

It does happen occasionally like floods and earthquakes. Not the norm though. I suspect the classification is to encourage those brewers who only use kits to "haveago"

Interesting that I sat at a table of a winning "kit" brewer at a comp. He went on and on and onabout how kits can win comps. It was only once i asked him how he made such a fantastic beer that he revealed that you just add steeped grain mixtures and hops .

Its akin to "amateur" brewers using commercial brewery ingredients or equipment to score well in a comp. I would call it cheating
GF

i got a highly commended in the last castle hill, one point off 3rd, with a kit beer made to the recipe on the can and a different yeast.
it does happen

 

[beers]

But why have a kit only category?

just the same as the argument that kit beers shouldn't be judged with the AG beers.

My point was that I found your logic a little wonky. By all means if someone wants to organise, & advertise, a competion or category as Kit (or AG for that matter) only, then so be it. If I choose to enter I will enter to those rules / categories.
The OP has stated that he got pinged for entering a beer into a competition labelled as an "amateur" competition. Should a "professional" brewer be allowed to enter into an amateur competition? IMO, no. Don't get me wrong - as an amateur brewer I have no problem competing against professional brewers in competition.. I just feel if a competition (or category for that matter) is labelled one way then a bit of respect should be given. Again, I wouldn't care if the AABC changed to the ABC. I just think the original question should be aimed in a different direction.

 

[browndog]

I guess the simple answer is for competition organisers to drop the word amateur from their competition names and just make it a (home) brewing competition.

 

[schooey]

My point was that I found your logic a little wonky. By all means if someone wants to organise, & advertise, a competion or category as Kit (or AG for that matter) only, then so be it. If I choose to enter I will enter to those rules / categories.
The OP has stated that he got pinged for entering a beer into a competition labelled as an "amateur" competition. Should a "professional" brewer be allowed to enter into an amateur competition? IMO, no. Don't get me wrong - as an amateur brewer I have no problem competing against professional brewers in competition.. I just feel if a competition (or category for that matter) is labelled one way then a bit of respect should be given. Again, I wouldn't care if the AABC changed to the ABC. I just think the original question should be aimed in a different direction.

Err..my first comment was sarcasm.

It was based on what barls has just mentioned; about AG brewers arguing that kit beers shouldn't be judged with theirs. I say why the hell not? The same as why a pro brewer should be allowed to enter an amateur comp. Yes, given that they are using 'homebrewing' style equipment... but with the brewing equipment available to the average homebrewer these days, I'm not even sure how relevant that is.

Many head brewers at craft breweries often brew on their pilot systems for new ideas, run inter staff mini comps etc etc. I don't see any logic in excluding them, except for the whiny 'but they might beat me' argument. Same as the kit beer thing...

 

[beers]

I guess the simple answer is for competition organisers to drop the word amateur from their competition names and just make it a (home) brewing competition.

+1

 

[Cocko]

I guess the simple answer is for competition organisers to drop the word amateur from their competition names and just make it a (home) brewing competition.

So you are saying there is a 'professional HOME brewer' than? What would classify a home brewer as 'professional' ?

If it is brewed at home, as stated, we are all on a level playing field - knowledge is up to you, equipment is up to you but the overall result is = you make beer at home for no other reason than to drink yourself and/or explore the world of how and why beer is made in certain ways...

 

[browndog]

So you are saying there is a 'professional HOME brewer' than? What would classify a home brewer as 'professional' ?

If it is brewed at home, as stated, we are all on a level playing field - knowledge is up to you, equipment is up to you but the overall result is = you make beer at home for no other reason than to drink yourself and/or explore the world of how and why beer is made in certain ways...

No, what I am saying is if they dropped the word amateur then no one could complain about pro's entering, the emphasis is on the word home.

 

[gone_fishing_]

Err..my first comment was sarcasm.

It was based on what barls has just mentioned; about AG brewers arguing that kit beers shouldn't be judged with theirs. I say why the hell not?

Hi Schooey,

But Kits are judged with AG beers everytime. Its the AG not allowed in kit section.

I couldnt give a rats scrotum if a Pro brewer personally entered a HB competition with their own ingredients and equipment. Now if that same brewer "piped" off some fresh wort from "his" day job brewery, then that would be a different matter. That would be similar to me grabbing a longneck of Carlton Draught, soaking the label off and entering as an Australian Lager.

On another tact, I know a commercial brewer who just happened to be a very good homebrewer. However, that person was a very good homebrewer before they became a commercial brewer. As far as I know, that person has not entered HB comps since they became commercially involved in brewing.

Finally, if a person embarks on a career as a Master Brewer, they must also bear in mind that if they continue to enter HB comps, to prepare themselves for ridicule.
GF

 

[DU99]

A professional is a person that is paid for what they do. Qualifications have little to do with being a professional as the world's "oldest profession" is strictly a monetary gain career. An amateur maybe more qualified than a professional but they are not paid, thus they are an amateur.

 

[dent]

At first I thought it might discourage new punters from entering competitions, since "Brendan Brewing, Inc" wins them all so why bother - but then again this happens with the usual suspects at every comp anyhow. So I guess there isn't much difference.

I'd like to see your entries in the pro section of the Perth Royal Beer Show and the like though. I think that side needs some shaking up.

 

[Cocko]

No, what I am saying is if they dropped the word amateur then no one could complain about pro's entering, the emphasis is on the word home.

All good mate, no beef - just miss read your post and, now seeing your point, agree 100%.

Cheers

 

[samhaldane]

Hypothetically, what if I took my system to work? What if I used the pH meter because mine was broken?

I think brewing on a 'home' system is the same no matter where you are. I'm not sure if the emphasis on 'home' solves the problem in this situation.

I would be fine competing with you in competitions, but competing against another 'pro' like (for example) Brendan Varis? Well, that's a different story. Where do you draw the line?

 

[gone_fishing_]

I'd like to see your entries in the pro section of the Perth Royal Beer Show and the like though. I think that side needs some shaking up.

Now that is a good point!!
GF

 

[WitWonder]

I voted no, because I'm sick of you winning competitions and now I have a valid excuse for preventing you entering

I voted yes, because we need someone keeping Asher honest I don't care as long as it's brewed "at home". As others have said, if they dropped the word amateur and just called them homebrew competitions it probably wouldn't be such an issue. Is Jamil still entering amateur homebrew comps?

At the end of the day people aren't going to be experts at all styles - it takes alot of practice to get a style right and on homebrew setups replicating a beer on demand is pretty difficult. So, just because Brendan has produced an award winning wheat beer in the past doesn't necessarily mean he can pull one out at the right time for a comp. And because beer judging is subjective, that award winning beer he brewed in the past may not win an award next time because the judges are different or because they prefer another entry on the night.

 

[felten]

Is Jamil still entering amateur homebrew comps?

I think he retired a while ago actually

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I think it is totally unfair for Brendon to enter because he gets free beer from work and doesnt have to drink all his comp beers like I do. Come comp time I have no beers and he does, now is that fair ? :lol:
See you at the PRBS Brendon, I am happy to share the Amateur trophies.
GB

 

[brendanos]

I think it is totally unfair for Brendon to enter because he gets free beer from work and doesnt have to drink all his comp beers like I do. Come comp time I have no beers and he does, now is that fair ? :lol:
See you at the PRBS Brendon, I am happy to share the Amateur trophies.
GB

Just make sure you save some this time - I was disheartened by the absence of your beers last year!

Believe me I still drink more expensive craft beer and other people's home brews than free beer or my own brews. Incidentally I give away about a carton of beer away each week....

I'll see that the wording of the PRBS amateur section this year allows my entry