Professional Vs Amateur - Competitions

[Nick JD]

Beer brewed by professionals is nearly always rubbish.

I think you'll lose - so I wouldn't bother.

 

[gone_fishing_]

You should be allowed to enter your homebrew in a homebrew competition, apart from knowledge and experience I don't seen how a commercial brewer has any sort of massive advantage over anyone else who can accumulate the same knowledge and experience using their own gear. Now if you were entering commercial beer as your own that is a different story, and there is different competitions just for such a thing.

Ingredients and equipment available to breweries are also available to homebrewers (in some form), many homebrewers have a mini lab and testing equipment for pH/DO/tds and so on, and they're freely available to purchase. And those things still aren't a massive advantage, how often do you see people place in competitions that are using extracts and their entry level homebrew kit w/ dry yeast, it's more about a brewer's skill (and maybe the judges) than any sort of degree or equipment.

whether they let you win a prize though I guess is up to them

Hey Felten,
Commercial breweries certainly get first "dibs" on ingredients (especially hops) and maintain specific cultures of yeast that are not generally availaible. Homebrewers most usually end up with sloppy seconds when it comes to ingredients.

GF

 

[warra48]

It's a Homebrew competition we're talking about.

Doing something professionally in your day job doesn't necessarily translate into doing the same thing at home with a homebrew set-up.

I'm retired, but when I was working there were plenty of times when I had it all over the so called "professionals". I well remember the occasion when I received an advice from a prominent and respected firm of solicitors about a certain issue of law. I didn't accept the advice, and replied with a strong argument to the contrary. The solicitors sought the advice of a QC. It seems he was on the same wavelength I was, as he quoted half of my letter of argument in his advice, and accepted the thrust of my submissions. Within 2 years the High Court changed their precedent consistent with my argument.

Being a professional doesn't necessarily mean you have it all correct and produce beer beyond criticism and to the best standard. After all, how many posters on this forum have railed about crap beer produced by "professional" major and boutique breweries?

So, I voted in favour of allowing them in.

 

[felten]

Once you get paid to do something you are considered a professional at it. If a professional fine furniture maker entered a piece into a amateur comp, even though he made it at home. Would that be fair on the rest???
Or a professional runner enters a amateur comp. Would that be fair on the rest???

What if there is an amateur furniture maker who has been making furniture at home every day as a hobby for the past 15 years and his furniture is just as high quality as a professional furniture maker yet he doesn't sell it to anyone, would he not be allowed to enter or win prizes because he knows how to make a great piece of furniture?

The furniture would probably taste pretty bad either way.

At the end of the day it's up to the competition organisers to make up the rules and if you choose to enter the comp you have to follow them.

Hey Felten,
Commercial breweries certainly get first "dibs" on ingredients (especially hops) and maintain specific cultures of yeast that are not generally availaible. Homebrewers most usually end up with sloppy seconds when it comes to ingredients.

GF

So the many hops and grains you can purchase from around the world, and the many yeast strains you can purchase from white labs/wyeast are all scraps? I don't buy that. I'm sure the macro breweries have access to ingredients that homebrews usually don't have access to. But many micro breweries are using the same simpson/weyermann sacks of grain and so on that you can purchase from the LHBS. (anyway this is a bit of a side track to the OP's question)

 

[gone_fishing_]

What if there is an amateur furniture maker who has been making furniture at home every day as a hobby for the past 15 years and his furniture is just as high quality as a professional furniture maker yet he doesn't sell it to anyone, would he not be allowed to enter or win prizes because he knows how to make a great piece of furniture?

The furniture would probably taste pretty bad either way.

At the end of the day it's up to the competition organisers to make up the rules and if you choose to enter the comp you have to follow them.

I agree so long as the same furniture maker did not use tools or materials from the "factory".
GF

 

[Nick JD]

What about having a professional helping you brew? Is that okay?

He'd be like, "Pour in the sucrose ... nah, more! MORE SUCROSE!" Then he'd be like, "Chuck those hop flowers, mate - we'll use these HOPS IN A BEAKER!"

 

[randyrob]

I voted YES, May the best beer win.

at the end of the day the yeast make the beer, so a potential loophole could be if said brewer's partner wasn't a professional brewer why wouldn't you just get them to pitch the yeast

 

[manticle]

Kmon Guys,

How can someone who gets paid to make beer, be allowed to enter a "COMPETITION" against guys who "DON'T" get paid to brew ?????????????????????????????????

The same way someone from the Australian hockey or cricket or judo teams can still play top level amateur sport.

If CUB brewed the beer or if Fents used the Kooinda team and brewery to make his homebrewed beer then that would be cheating.

It's homebrew so if it's brewed at home then its eligible. It's not like the prizes are 7 weeks in Europe or a 3 million dollar cheque.

 

[drew9242]

What if there is an amateur furniture maker who has been making furniture at home every day as a hobby for the past 15 years and his furniture is just as high quality as a professional furniture maker yet he doesn't sell it to anyone, would he not be allowed to enter or win prizes because he knows how to make a great piece of furniture?

The furniture would probably taste pretty bad either way.

At the end of the day it's up to the competition organisers to make up the rules and if you choose to enter the comp you have to follow them.

Well he is a very lucky man for being able to do his hobby full time without worry about food or bills. But yes of course you could enter it because he is a amateur. I think many homebrewers will make a beer better then the professionals. But because they don't sell it, they are just good amateurs, which is why they are entering the comp.

definition of amateur: a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.

So really the question is because he does it at home and makes no money out of the beer, can he then enter it into a amatuer comp?

Tough one especially when most comps have trophys and prize money. Thats when some people might get a bit worked up.

 

[KillerRx4]

definition of amateur: a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.

Can one be both? Amateur homebrewer for many years, one day taking on a day job as a pro brewer....

If he continues to brew at home on the same level as he did before being employed as a brewer, surely that still is eligible to enter homebrew comps.

 

[DU99]

In the end its the judges who decide its merits whether its good or excellent or just drinkable

 

[drew9242]

Can one be both?

Well that is the big question. And one each comp would need to sort out.

 

[beers]

Seems to me that the real question is "should the term 'amateur' be removed from the title of competitions?"

 

[schooey]

They shouldn't be allowed to... just the same as the argument that kit beers shouldn't be judged with the AG beers.... for goodness sake, they might win and make us all look bad!

Same logic...

 

[white.grant]

Don't forget that there are a few pros on this forum who teach us everything we knew.

cheers

grant

 

[beers]

They shouldn't be allowed to... just the same as the argument that kit beers shouldn't be judged with the AG beers.... for goodness sake, they might win and make us all look bad!

Same logic...

Should AG beers be allowed to be entered into "kit beer only" categories, or vice versa?

 

[schooey]

Should AG beers be allowed to be entered into "kit beer only" categories, or vice versa?

Why do we need a kit or AG category? Just give it a style, open it to everyone and judge it

 

[beers]

Why do we need a kit or AG category?

Exactly. I'm all for it being changed. However you won't see me entering in any "professional" comps... but maybe that's just me.

 

[gone_fishing_]

Why do we need a kit or AG category? Just give it a style, open it to everyone and judge it

Plenty of kit beers entered in "open" categories. The rule is that AG NOT entered into kit.

Same should apply to Pro brewers. If they can stand by their heart that NOTHING in their setup was supplied by a commercial brewery then they should be able to enter.

This point brings up another point. I wonder how many K&K brewers have done a mini-mash, entered as a "kit" and won?
GF

 

[schooey]

But why have a kit only category? I have seen, and tasted, many kit beers that have won categories in comps. AABC don't disseminate between kit and AG, you just enter a beer.