Plambic & The Turbid Mash

[Asher]

Well nearly 12 months on from the first pLambic attempt. Upon tasting, the beer is still quite bitter due to the debittered hops we used actually being quite bitter! But the aroma and funky flavours are developing quite nicely. There is still some souring left to happen & fingers crossed some more of the bitterness and the slight fecal notes will disappear in the next 12 months or so..

Pictured are two corked polycarbonates containing pLambic & one siliconed bunged containing a Flanders Red Ale.





Asher for now

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Mines still chugging along in the computer room. Nice n acidic with a bit of leather n wet horse but the bitterness is still too high.

 

[neonmeate]

what do fecal notes sound like?

i noticed too when i was at the cantillon brewery years ago, they gave us some of their aged hops to munch on in the tour, and they were still really bitter!

 

[marlow_coates]

Good looking brews fellas.
I have been thinking about a pseudo lambic since learning what they are. Very inspired reading this thread. Also the 'Liddel' article showed just how complex and varied brewing a pseudo lambic can be.

A few questions I was hoping you could help with..

Do you pitch a primary yeast, then pitch the cultured 'wilds' over it?
Or is the cultured 'wild' your first pitch then leave?
Would you recomend getting a complete yeast pack with Brett., Sach. and Pedio. or go with separate pitches of pure cultures?
Did you leave fermenter uncorked till mass bubbling stopped then cork once it could be contained?
In doing the mash do you think it would matter if each 'step' up of temp was done as fast as the burner could work? Or do you need pre prepared water to make instantaneous 'step'?

Hope these questions aren't elementary.

Slowly forming a plan for how I want my own pseudo lambic cellar to operate.

Cheers

Marlow

 

[Asher]

Howdy Marlow

Ask me in about 15 years and I may have some idea what I'm talking about.... This is as much a learning experiment for me as you. Since batches will take 2+ years to mature I'll be doing new batches yearly and monitoring/blending/bottling down the track. So my recipe and mashing regime is only my interpretation from researching some of the more traditional lambic breweries techniques and thus just the philosophical route I have chosen...Sometimes a good thing to do rather than just buy the latest book of recipes from the pope

So

Do you pitch a primary yeast, then pitch the cultured 'wilds' over it?

I didn't, the Wyeast Lambic Blend contains a couple of Saccharomyces yeasts (normal beer yeast) in the blend so no need to pitch a primary yeasts

Would you recomend getting a complete yeast pack with Brett., Sach. and Pedio. or go with separate pitches of pure cultures?

I went with the blend - This being a long term project I wanted something to be similar in each batch. So I'll be purchasing new packs for each batch I do.

Did you leave fermenter uncorked till mass bubbling stopped then cork once it could be contained?

Fermented uncorked with foil loosely over top for about a month, then added cork when moved to cellar

In doing the mash do you think it would matter if each 'step' up of temp was done as fast as the burner could work? Or do you need pre prepared water to make instantaneous 'step'?

Turbid mashing is as much about what you drain off to the mash kettle and denature early (want lots of undigested starches, proteins and dextrins for the other bacteria to chew on long into the fermentation) as it is about what stays in the Mash tun. So you'll need to add water back to the tunn for these losses. Since your doing this you may as well kill two birds with the one stone and achieve the next rest temp with the addition also.

Good luck
And long live the Victoria Park Brett Strain!

Asher

 

[ausdb]

Well nearly 12 months on from the first pLambic attempt. Upon tasting, the beer is still quite bitter due to the debittered hops we used actually being quite bitter!
Pictured are two corked polycarbonates containing pLambic & one siliconed bunged containing a Flanders Red Ale.
View attachment 18092

Asher I'm glad this thread has come back to the top, I was wondering what sort of temps you managed to maintain in your "cellar pit" especially over the last summer we had?

 

[kook]

Brewed another pLambic (60% Pils, 40% Flaked Wheat) on the weekend with the assistance of Insight.

We tried the Cantillon schedule outlined in Wild Brews (modified to dough in at 1L/kg). Went reasonably well, though we didn't need to add as much water for each step as prescribed. Must have been due to the changed dough in liquor amount?...


Doughing in at 1L/kg - It really just wets the grain, nothing else.


First runnings to be raised to 88 - Milky, turbid and glutenous.


Mash after the final sparge


Into the carboy after a 4hr boil with hop flowers from 1997 (cheers Insight!).

Now it's a waiting game....

 

[schooey]

Any tasting updates, Asher?

 

[kook]

I'm not Asher but I'll pipe up on this thread anyway.

Bottled my Flanders Kriek yesterday - 13 month old Flanders Red, aged for another 4 months on cherries. Had a few tastes from the bottling bucket, seemed good but still a little lacking in acidity for my tastes.

Also bottled two all-brett beers, a berliner weisse and dark funky thing. I was really impressed with the "Dark Funk", it's got a good whack of tartness, yet still has some nice plum-like flavours from the dark candi syrup. I stuck 7L worth of it with 3L of red wine must - will see what happens. Did the same with one of the all brett beers.

 

[Weizguy]

I'm not Asher but I'll pipe up on this thread anyway.

Bottled my Flanders Kriek yesterday - 13 month old Flanders Red, aged for another 4 months on cherries. Had a few tastes from the bottling bucket, seemed good but still a little lacking in acidity for my tastes.

Also bottled two all-brett beers, a berliner weisse and dark funky thing. I was really impressed with the "Dark Funk", it's got a good whack of tartness, yet still has some nice plum-like flavours from the dark candi syrup. I stuck 7L worth of it with 3L of red wine must - will see what happens. Did the same with one of the all brett beers.

Onya Kook, keeping the dream alive.

Have ya shared the Berliner with Pat yet?
When can I drink the PLambic and the raspberry Wit?
I wanna taste them at their best.
Happy to review them here, if that's acceptable

Could B a wordy review.
more offline L8r
Les

 

[Tony]

Well after all my infections latly im still a bit sickened at the idea but.............

I have ordered a couple of the Cantillon beers to try. ITs just something a brewer has to do i guess.

A couple of questions.

Aged hops.......... what are the best hops to use.......... variery, flowers or pellets, and whats the best way to go about aging them?

And where did you get the corks for the plastic water bottles?

One more question......... unmalted wheat! Is it ok to just get it at the local stock feed co-op or it there a brewing grade available?

cheers

 

[gap]

One more question......... unmalted wheat! Is it ok to just get it at the local stock feed co-op or it there a brewing grade available?

cheers

Tony,

I got my Organic Raw Wheat from a food Co-op. Maybe try a health food shop. Not sure about stock food ,unless you know it has no additives.

Regards

Graeme

 

[Asher]

Any tasting updates, Asher?

No notes as yet. pLambic is hybernating deep in the Junctyard pLambic Cave(AKA-car service pit) over winter. Will pull out for a tasting in spring

A couple of questions.

Aged hops.......... what are the best hops to use.......... variery, flowers or pellets, and whats the best way to go about aging them?

And where did you get the corks for the plastic water bottles?

One more question......... unmalted wheat! Is it ok to just get it at the local stock feed co-op or it there a brewing grade available?

cheers

I think any old low %AA hop will do. Just pick your favoured one as you may get some slight background flavours coming through.
I use flowers now. Have used debittered pellets but was disappointed with result - read back in this thread
Had a kilo plug of Cluster I used for the 2008 batch that spent a couple of years aging in paper bags in Juncthouse. I also purchased half a kilo of NZ golding flowers earlier this year for future batches. Their low AA and should be nice and cheesy after a hot Perth summer in the rafters.

The corks came from my LHS. G&G have them also I think.

I use raw white wheat from my local markets. Available by the kilo.

I've bottled some Kreik also and plan to enter that in the local comp later this year. It's not acidic enough but was made from the infamous Victora Park Brett plague of 2006. have also bottled my Flemish brown ale that is a little bland(due mainly to my hastyness of adding a kolsch yeast to it to see its gravity reduce). So I'll be using kooks recipe and upping the unfermentables to try and get some serious grand cru acidity this year + letting ferment out over the heat of summer in the cave.

Asher for now

 

[kook]

So I'll be using kooks recipe and upping the unfermentables to try and get some serious grand cru acidity this year + letting ferment out over the heat of summer in the cave.

You may want to consider adding a larger culture of lactobacillus, or re-pitching some used flanders cake to get some real acidity happening. I'm really impressed with the WYeast berliner weisse blend so far, I think a combination of this and Roselare would be awesome.

 

[sinkas]

If any Perth people wnat any raw wheat, let me know as I have about 40Kg I have never used, its even fking organic!

Kook:
anychance of bringing a sample of the Pliney to tonights meeting of the WCB?

 

[kook]

If any Perth people wnat any raw wheat, let me know as I have about 40Kg I have never used, its even fking organic!

Kook:
anychance of bringing a sample of the Pliney to tonights meeting of the WCB?

Will do - though I'm not impressed with it, my attempt tastes totally different to the way I remember it. Will see what you think.

 

[Tony]

OK...... no worries.

Thanks for the info folks.

If i want to have a go at this im looking a 2 or 3 years before i can even start once i de-bitter the hops.

Should have one in the galss by 2012

Asher......... you listed some g/hectoliter rate for the hopping. How many grams did you use in 50 liters mate?

I think i may put brew like a monk and wild brews on the fathers day list

cheers

 

[Quintrex]

OK...... no worries.

Thanks for the info folks.

If i want to have a go at this im looking a 2 or 3 years before i can even start once i de-bitter the hops.

Should have one in the galss by 2012

Asher......... you listed some g/hectoliter rate for the hopping. How many grams did you use in 50 liters mate?

I think i may put brew like a monk and wild brews on the fathers day list

cheers

There are procedures for debittering hops by "cooking" them in the oven on low heat(might have been 90 deg C?) for an hour and a half.
Most hopping rates that I have seen list 6g/l for lambics

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that you are now "re-infecting" your brewery
both really good book choices too,

Q

 

[Tony]

If i do have a go at it....... and it will depend on my opinion of the Lambics i have on their way in the post.......... it will not be in any gear that has anything to do with the rest of my brewing.

Will do as the others have done and use a couple of old water bottles and chuck them out afterwards. May even invest in a glass carboy and just use it for a batch each year.

cheers

 

[Quintrex]

If i do have a go at it....... and it will depend on my opinion of the Lambics i have on their way in the post.......... it will not be in any gear that has anything to do with the rest of my brewing.

Will do as the others have done and use a couple of old water bottles and chuck them out afterwards. May even invest in a glass carboy and just use it for a batch each year.

cheers

I was just having a friendly jab at ya :icon_cheers: , if you do decide to get into it investment in a glass carboy is best,
but as you say, see how you like them first.

Q