droid
somewhere on the slippery slope with a beer in han
now there's an idea!
Pimping a wheat beer in a keg..
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Droopy Brew
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There is no saccharification in there. 30 min at 30C (why?) then decoct to,40C for 30min (again- why?) then straight to 72C? As far as I can see the only fermentables you would have got would be from the 6L of decoction that sat at 62C for 30 min.droid said:
IF the above is correct I dont know how you got anywhere near enough sugars and Im sure the yeast didnt know what the hell to make of it.
droid
somewhere on the slippery slope with a beer in han
i just want to pimp out my wheat mate
but here are the notes - where they came from i can't remember but i'm not going to look for them again on the net, i saved them when PM'ing someone on here for reference and this is what was in the recipe section of that brew when i looked it up on my recipes in brewers friend
- did i brew like that? i can't recall if i used that or did a step mash courtesy of some guys on here
The ideal malt ratio for a typical German/ Bavarian wheat beer would be 70 percent wheat malt, 27 percent Pilsner malt and 3 percent dark caramel malt to obtain the typical amber color. Any hops can be used as long as they are dosed carefully to keep the bitterness units below 14; this will allow the estery character of the beer to come through. Finally, an authentic German/Bavarian wheat beer yeast strain, such as Munich yeast available in the U.S. in dry form from Lallemand (this strain was selected at the Doemens Institute in Munich), should be used to maximize flavors. However, this is only realistic if the yeast has access to the right wort composition, which is dependent on the mashing regime.
At the beginning of the mashing process, the temperature should be kept low at 30° C (86° F) to increase the activity of the maltase enzyme in a decoction mash system and increase the glucose concentration (Figure 1). The greater the difference between the glucose and maltose in the wort, the more ethyl- and isoamyl acetate will be produced by the yeast. One part of the mash (25-30 percent) is then separated (thick mash) and heated to a temperature where the ß-amylase is active (62° C or 144° F), whereas the second part (thin mash) remains at 30º C, both for a 30-minute time period. After that time, they should be mixed back together to achieve a wort temperature of 40° C (104° F). This is the most critical step of the mashing process with the maltase being active and producing glucose for the next 30 minutes. Skipping the ß-amylase rest, the wort should be heated directly to a temperature of 72° C (162° F) to activate the a-amylase. After checking for a negative iodine reaction, the mash is reheated to the transfer temperature of 78° C (172° F).
Such a mashing recipe is based on the knowledge of enzymatic activity (Table 1) and yeast metabolism. By using a mash water-to-grist load ratio of 5:1 (by weight), a higher pH in the mash is achieved to optimize working conditions of the maltase. The lower mashing temperature of 40° C (104° F) allows for increased glucose production. Glucose level is around 8 g/l in a standard mash compared to 17 g/l with such a decoction mash system. As a result, yeast will demonstrate a so-called “diauxia phenomenon”: reduced maltose metabolism, reduced cell growth, and acetyl CoA will be transferred to higher alcohols coming from amino acid metabolism, resulting in an increased ester production compared to a standard fermentation, similar to the process of high gravity brewing.
The pitching rate is 15 million cells per milliliter, with the temperature held between 18-26° C (62-78° F). The higher the temperature, the more esters will be produced.
but here are the notes - where they came from i can't remember but i'm not going to look for them again on the net, i saved them when PM'ing someone on here for reference and this is what was in the recipe section of that brew when i looked it up on my recipes in brewers friend
- did i brew like that? i can't recall if i used that or did a step mash courtesy of some guys on here
The ideal malt ratio for a typical German/ Bavarian wheat beer would be 70 percent wheat malt, 27 percent Pilsner malt and 3 percent dark caramel malt to obtain the typical amber color. Any hops can be used as long as they are dosed carefully to keep the bitterness units below 14; this will allow the estery character of the beer to come through. Finally, an authentic German/Bavarian wheat beer yeast strain, such as Munich yeast available in the U.S. in dry form from Lallemand (this strain was selected at the Doemens Institute in Munich), should be used to maximize flavors. However, this is only realistic if the yeast has access to the right wort composition, which is dependent on the mashing regime.
At the beginning of the mashing process, the temperature should be kept low at 30° C (86° F) to increase the activity of the maltase enzyme in a decoction mash system and increase the glucose concentration (Figure 1). The greater the difference between the glucose and maltose in the wort, the more ethyl- and isoamyl acetate will be produced by the yeast. One part of the mash (25-30 percent) is then separated (thick mash) and heated to a temperature where the ß-amylase is active (62° C or 144° F), whereas the second part (thin mash) remains at 30º C, both for a 30-minute time period. After that time, they should be mixed back together to achieve a wort temperature of 40° C (104° F). This is the most critical step of the mashing process with the maltase being active and producing glucose for the next 30 minutes. Skipping the ß-amylase rest, the wort should be heated directly to a temperature of 72° C (162° F) to activate the a-amylase. After checking for a negative iodine reaction, the mash is reheated to the transfer temperature of 78° C (172° F).
Such a mashing recipe is based on the knowledge of enzymatic activity (Table 1) and yeast metabolism. By using a mash water-to-grist load ratio of 5:1 (by weight), a higher pH in the mash is achieved to optimize working conditions of the maltase. The lower mashing temperature of 40° C (104° F) allows for increased glucose production. Glucose level is around 8 g/l in a standard mash compared to 17 g/l with such a decoction mash system. As a result, yeast will demonstrate a so-called “diauxia phenomenon”: reduced maltose metabolism, reduced cell growth, and acetyl CoA will be transferred to higher alcohols coming from amino acid metabolism, resulting in an increased ester production compared to a standard fermentation, similar to the process of high gravity brewing.
The pitching rate is 15 million cells per milliliter, with the temperature held between 18-26° C (62-78° F). The higher the temperature, the more esters will be produced.
droid
somewhere on the slippery slope with a beer in han
i dont know how long the 72deg was done for - i dont think it was 30minutes - it was done until i reached conversion, or at least close - i remember thinking i could have held it longer but i'm sure it was longer than 30minutes - that time may have just been entered into the recipe because i had to enter a time
Droopy Brew
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Fark that is strange. I guess the 72C is right at the top of the Sacc range so would have extracted your sugars. But the extended furic acid rest I would have thought would produce a shitload of clove flavour.
Anyway, it is nothing like any mashing schedule I have seen before. Something like Zwickles schedule is the more accepted norm and does produce a great beer. Perhaps the lack of flavour in yours (hence the desire to pimp) is to do with the mash schedule.
I'd be really interested to see if anyone else has used this mash regime and what their results were.
Were your OG and FGs around what you had estimated?
Anyway, it is nothing like any mashing schedule I have seen before. Something like Zwickles schedule is the more accepted norm and does produce a great beer. Perhaps the lack of flavour in yours (hence the desire to pimp) is to do with the mash schedule.
I'd be really interested to see if anyone else has used this mash regime and what their results were.
Were your OG and FGs around what you had estimated?
droid
somewhere on the slippery slope with a beer in han
no the efficiancy was bad, i cant remember what volume i wanted but i know at least 40ltrs for two kegs. when it finished the boil it was 1051 but i only had 35ltrs
i should have left it at that (fwiw my refractometer is temp corrected however i gained three points when an 80 degree wort was compared to a 25 the other day...)
i ended up diluting the beer to get 40ltrs which was a mistake
i don't know what og i had once i put 5ltrs of water into the fermenter - you could work it out if ya care! hehe, the FG was low - 1010 or less
anyway, i would try it again but it was a loooong day and i was trying to get banana from the glucose and the low pitch into a non-oxygenated wort, obviously some of that (possibly includung the mash schedule) was wrong
a bit "meh" meant there wasn't any banana - the beer itself is spritzy and wheaty and refreshing on a hot summer day but a bit wheaty and tart for my liking,
i aint suggesting trying that mash schedule
and there's 20minutes i'll never get back
peace out
i should have left it at that (fwiw my refractometer is temp corrected however i gained three points when an 80 degree wort was compared to a 25 the other day...)
i ended up diluting the beer to get 40ltrs which was a mistake
i don't know what og i had once i put 5ltrs of water into the fermenter - you could work it out if ya care! hehe, the FG was low - 1010 or less
anyway, i would try it again but it was a loooong day and i was trying to get banana from the glucose and the low pitch into a non-oxygenated wort, obviously some of that (possibly includung the mash schedule) was wrong
a bit "meh" meant there wasn't any banana - the beer itself is spritzy and wheaty and refreshing on a hot summer day but a bit wheaty and tart for my liking,
i aint suggesting trying that mash schedule
and there's 20minutes i'll never get back
peace out
Droopy Brew
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Keg hop with some chopped banana? :icon_vomit:
I have a hefe on at the moment which I tried with a single step mash at 67C. Fermentation with a single pack of 3068 in lightly O2 wort at 17C and raising to 22C over a number of days as per normal will give me some nice clove on the palate and plenty of banana on the nose- what a Hefe should be. But I have found the banana was out of balance with the clove (not enough banana) on this one as compared with my 55-63-72 step mash. I will go back to the step next time.
The banana has improved a little over the past 4-5 days since kegging but or maybe its just the clove subsiding a bit?
I have a hefe on at the moment which I tried with a single step mash at 67C. Fermentation with a single pack of 3068 in lightly O2 wort at 17C and raising to 22C over a number of days as per normal will give me some nice clove on the palate and plenty of banana on the nose- what a Hefe should be. But I have found the banana was out of balance with the clove (not enough banana) on this one as compared with my 55-63-72 step mash. I will go back to the step next time.
The banana has improved a little over the past 4-5 days since kegging but or maybe its just the clove subsiding a bit?
