Noob Mead Makers Wanted - Apply Within

[Chad]

I've been doing the occasional mead over the past 2.5 years, and still have some of batch one in the cupboard. I've had mixed results, but none that have made me think "wow, this is a good drink".
The problem is that I have only ever bought/tasted one commercial mead which was Old Caves, Liquer Mead from Stanthorpe. This is a sensational drop. So, I am yet to taste a regular commercial mead. So based on that I just don't know what it should really taste like.

The best one that I have done so far has been an orange melomel, and used Tandaco bread yeast to ferment it out. This is quite drinkable, but as I said there is no Wow factor.
One thing I have noticed is that they are definitely getting better with time.

Chappo, I will try to remember to bring a bottle to the March meeting for you to try, and another in a few meetings after that.

 

[Ronin]

Thanks Dave for all the advice

Looks like I'm off to CB's tomorrow for some 5lt carboys and some yeast and some nutrients and some.... :lol:

I'm really glad I don't live in the same state as that store. Even mail order I end up spending too much, at least I've got a weight limit to try and stick to.

 

[Ronin]

1.6kg Macadamia honey

Andrew

Macadamia honey! Where'd you get that from. I think I need to find some.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Macadamia honey! Where'd you get that from. I think I need to find some.

One of the local producers (Bundaberg), a mate of mine buys bulk honey for his work occasionally and he kindly grabbed 10lt for me.

Andrew

 

[Airgead]

As for Nutrient Scheduling:

I like to Re-hydrate with Go-Ferm (or just re-hydrate with plain water)
Then once the lag phase is over (active fermentation has begun) I add 2.5g of Fermaid-K per 10L of Must
Then once the one third sugar break is reached (1/3 of sugars eaten, usually a few days) I add another 2.5g of Fermaid-K per 10L
Everyday the Must is aerated well.

I think it would be safe to substitute the CB nutrient in similar quantities.

The reason no nutrient is added at the start is:
1. So any bad yeasts or nasties don't use those nutrients to out compete your yeast.
2. Its been shown in research that the yeast do better, and start stronger this way.

Ideally your trying to keep your yeast strong and healthy but ALWAYS hungry, otherwise they won't want to eat up all those sugars!

I'm going to disagree with you here.

Yeast needs nutrient to make more yeast during its aerobic reproduction phase. This means it needs it at the beginning. Once it has reproduced and goes anaerobic it doesn't need the nutrient so much any more so adding it later won't do much

If you have wild yeast or bacteria in there they will generally out compete your good yeast nutrient or not. in fact they are probably better at dealing with low nutrient environments that your brewing yeast so they are likely to do even better. Adding the nutrient may favour your brewing yeast over the wild stuff. Anyway... that's what we have sanitation for.

I am also going to disagree on aerating the must every day. There is no way you want to be doing that. Once those yeast go anaerobic you want them to stay that way. Mead will oxidise just like beer will. Worse in fact because hops provide some antioxidant.

Winemakers do agitate their musts to break up the layer of skins etc that forms but I see no reason to do that wil mead. I'd leave it well sealed and let that yeast get down to business undisturbed.


Edit: sorry.. found something else to disagree about. From one of your earlier posts you said never add nutrient to a starter. Again I disagree. Yeast really need that nutrient during their reproductive phase which is exactly what you want out of a starter - lots of good health cells. I always add nutrient to starters. Even malt based ones.

You mentioned in another post that your first mead came out under attenuated. i would suggest that its the way that you are using the nutrient that may be partly at fault there.

Cheers
Dave

 

[chappo1970]

Wow Andrew that's very clear even the plastic bottle is lensing/magnifying the grout in the tiles behind.

 

[Wolfy]

I adapted the recipe from here Joe Mattioli's Foolproof Ancient Orange, Clove, and Cinnamon Mead

That's the exact same recipe I used for my first, don't recognize that forum so I guess it was copied somewhere.
I lost my bookmarks so I couldn't find the link again.

I used some champagne yeast from the LHB and it turned out very very dry - too much so for our tastes - not so bad mixed 1/2-1/2 with lemonade.

 

[davewaldo]

Hi Airgread,

I'm no expert on mead, I'm simply passing on what seems to be the agreed best practise for Mead making (mainly in the US). So I guess I should qualify some of my statments.

I agree with you that yeast need nutrients at the start which is why I use Go-Ferm which gives the yeast everything it needs to make a strong start but doesn't include DAP. DAP can prove toxic to rehydrating yeast and can cause more damage than good. Read more here: http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13600 some of the members on Got mead like PBakulic (oskaar) and Wayneb are VERY experienced mead makers (and quite famous in these circles). I use their methods and recomendations which are built upon good research and experience. By the way, this is also the process recomened by Lallemand who make the yeast and nutrient I use, and supply ALOT of yeast and nutrient to the wine industry (take a read on their site).

As for mead starters without any nutrient, this is an area I don't have any experience with. However I am just repeating the general knwledge from very experienced mead makers. Do a search on the gotmead website for more info (I'll try and find the info I've read and post it tomorrow). The reason I have no experience with starters is because I used dried wine yeasts from lalemand. If rehydrated with G-Ferm its really not nessesary to make a starter unless you going for huge SG around 1.200 or more.

I totally agree that you don't want to aerate once the yeast have gone annerobic. This is why you stop aerating at the 1/3 sugar break (like I said). It is around this point that research has proven that the yeast makes the change from aerobic to anerobic. Before the 1/3 sugar break the yeast is in the reproduction phase and needs the O2. The oxygen your giving them creates a strong cell wall so they can complete the task without falling out prematurely. Many accomplished mead makers reccomend aerating twice a day until the 1/3 sugar break. Usually this is ends up being only for the first few days. After this you avoid oxegen like the plague! You're absolutly right that it is quite easy to oxidise mead.

Also you might want to read more into agetating the must. Most commercial mead makers employ a lees stirrer to keep the yeast in suspension for primary fermentation. All these things, nutrients, aeration and agitation help create a quick and clean fermentation.

There has been tremendous advancments in the science/knowledge of mead making over the last 10 or so years. And although its best to compare mead making to wine making (rather than beer making), they don't follow the same process.

Anyways, its getting late and I've ranted enough.

Dave

PS. The only reason I mentioned my (somewhat failed) first mead was to encourage first time mead makers not to expect a perfect result first time. I agree there were many problems with my first mead. My yeast choice was poor, my nurient shedule was not great, but I think most importantly my aeration was not good after day 1.

 

[davewaldo]

But really we're splitting hairs here.

If you use good nutrient and aeration you should get a good result.

I've just been repeating what I have found to be the "accepted best practise" by the very experienced and sucsessful mead makers throughoutthe world. These include Ken Schramm and many over at gotmead.com (including many comercial mead makers).

 

[chappo1970]

I've been doing the occasional mead over the past 2.5 years, and still have some of batch one in the cupboard. I've had mixed results, but none that have made me think "wow, this is a good drink".
The problem is that I have only ever bought/tasted one commercial mead which was Old Caves, Liquer Mead from Stanthorpe. This is a sensational drop. So, I am yet to taste a regular commercial mead. So based on that I just don't know what it should really taste like.

The best one that I have done so far has been an orange melomel, and used Tandaco bread yeast to ferment it out. This is quite drinkable, but as I said there is no Wow factor.
One thing I have noticed is that they are definitely getting better with time.

Chappo, I will try to remember to bring a bottle to the March meeting for you to try, and another in a few meetings after that.

That would be great Chad cheers! I am not really sure what's good and bad with Mead or how it should taste as well. I had a commercial Mead in Munich but that was ages ago now. I only remember I liked it LOL!

 

[brettprevans]

ok so I went to my copy of Mosher's Radical Brewing on the weekend. strangely enough it was bookmarked at Meads! I'll post some of the info later. Good reading and some good reciepes. It also has info on aeration, yeast nutrient, acid levels and making other mead ralted brews such as fruit meads etc.

oooh look what i found on the internet . just exactly what I was talking about.
View attachment mead_info_from_mosher.pdf

 

[chappo1970]

ok so I went to my copy of Mosher's Radical Brewing on the weekend. strangely enough it was bookmarked at Meads! I'll post some of the info later. Good reading and some good reciepes. It also has info on aeration, yeast nutrient, acid levels and making other mead ralted brews such as fruit meads etc.

oooh look what i found on the internet . just exactly what I was talking about.
View attachment 25119

Snatch!

Thanks CM2... will print and read that on the train home tonight. This thread is getting packed with some really good information now. I feel I should go rumage a book store or 3 and try to contribute more. How's the honey bulk buy going? I am going to get 10kg pale of Ironbark from the guy I usually buy from this weekend. I'm still faffing around with recipes at this stage.

 

[brettprevans]

honey BB is at ~85kg worth now @ ~$5 per kg. im guessing we will hit the 100kg mark.

Im going to make up the recipe above and this one (which is Bconnery's Chrismoose Ale but with all honey fermentables)

4kg honey
130g Crystal
20g Dark Munich
4 oranges. (juice and rind of 4)
2.5tsp nutmeg.
1.5 tsp cloves.
1tsp mixed spice.
6 cardamon pods crushed.
2 sticks + 1tsp cinnamon.
10g Hersbrucker @45
25g Hersbrucker @ 15
20g Hallertau @ 45
20g Hallertau @ 15

 

[Ronin]

honey BB is at ~85kg worth now @ ~$5 per kg. im guessing we will hit the 100kg mark.

Especially because I'm considering ordering more :lol:

 

[chappo1970]

...100kg mark.

Better watch out for rogue bears trying to pull a heist h34r: ... they scan this forum you know! :lol:

4kg honey
130g Crystal
20g Dark Munich
4 oranges. (juice and rind of 4)
2.5tsp nutmeg.
1.5 tsp cloves.
1tsp mixed spice.
6 cardamon pods crushed.
2 sticks + 1tsp cinnamon.
10g Hersbrucker @45
25g Hersbrucker @ 15
20g Hallertau @ 45
20g Hallertau @ 15

Yeah it looks good. I think I want to start somewhere in the plain end of the scale to understand the taste and move on from there, like that original recipe you were looking at.

 

[Airgead]

But really we're splitting hairs here.

If you use good nutrient and aeration you should get a good result.

Too right. Thats the real key. Aerate well (whatever method works for you) and use nutrient (again whatever works for you) and you should be right.

My personal preference is to keep it simple (as I'm pretty simple myself) so I aerate once before I pitch. Pitch a good sized starter. One application of nutrient into the primary before pitching.

I'll give the more complex regime a go side by side with the simple and see if it makes any difference.

Cheers
Dave

 

[chappo1970]

oooh look what i found on the internet . just exactly what I was talking about.
View attachment 25119

A+++ CM2 it's a very good read cheers for putting it our way. Read on the way home last night and then again on the way in.

Ok so I'm settling on less elobrate recipe more along a wheaten honeywine

5.2kg Wheat malt
0.9kg Lager malt
1.4kg Ironbark Honey
150gr Fresh Ginger
Juice of 5 Lemons
4 Cinnamon sticks

Hops
45gr Tettnang 60mins
30gr Tettnang 30mins
30gr Tettnang 0mins
20gr Lemon Zest 0mins

Still trying to balance this a little?

 

[brettprevans]

is 150g of fresh ginger too much? i have no idea. it just sounds like a lot.

id love to taste this. i cant imagine what it will taste like.

 

[chappo1970]

is 150g of fresh ginger too much? i have no idea. it just sounds like a lot.

id love to taste this. i cant imagine what it will taste like.

To be honest I don't know? :wacko: I read some recipe which had it somewhere in the big wide world of tha intamahnet and thought that ginger and honey are good mates in food so why not in Mead? I think I might throw some fresh ground corriander seeds in there too?

OT: I make a pretty good prawn dish which is so simple... 1kg shelled green prawns marinate in Garlic, Ginger, Lemon, Lemon zest, honey, fresh ground corriander seeds, white wine or vinegar and a touch of light soy for 2hrs in fridge. Throw on a really hot hot BBQ cook 5mins max. Fresh crusty bread, spinach salad and a pint of a good APA. I might have do this tonight! :beerbang:

 

[Bribie G]

..........................
The problem is that I have only ever bought/tasted one commercial mead which was Old Caves, Liquer Mead from Stanthorpe. This is a sensational drop. So, I am yet to taste a regular commercial mead. So based on that I just don't know what it should really taste like.

................

If you get yourself and family out to the Abbey Medieval Festival on the Bribie Road, around the middle of July, they have a popular mead stall - it's an urban myth that there are mead making monks there, actually It's a nice standard and very delicious commercial brew that they buy in bulk. It's what strong cider only thinks it is. :icon_drool2: I have a son who dresses up as a peasant and poonces around for the day, you know the sort of thing. Hell I might get the sewing machine out myself and go as a bragotteer whatever they used to wear. Maybe carry a mash paddle and wear a leather apron? MMMMM leather apron.... :wub: