No Chiller Method Disasters and Successes

[SJW]

Well boys I am in a state of utter distress. I have been the biggest convert to the NO CHILLER METHOD but I went down stairs under the house this morning to find my glorious double hopped golden ale sitting in my NO CHILLED cube looking like a beach ball, with about 2cm's of foam on top.
I dont know what went wrong. I think TL might of hit the nail on the head as (I hate to admit it) it was a pool no chiller. But I did it over a week ago and has been fine. The cube has been used many times before but I hit it with the Iodophor prior to filling then dumped in the pool.
Anyway I pitched a US/56 in it this morning and I will see what happens.
Any chance that this picked up some nice clean fermenting wild yeast that will impart no off flavors?
I just thought it was my duty to report this sad loss and give anyone else the chance to grieve along with me.

Steve

 

[Bobby]

I believe that you aren't the first to experience this after crash cooling the cube. There really isn't any need to do it.

At least you now have an excuse to brew again...

 

[tangent]

same here. must be a chilling thing, but i was trying to stop the cube from melting, which happened the time before.
Do you no chillers wait until low 90's before transfer or what? Does your hose lose a bit of heat as well maybe?

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

same here. must be a chilling thing, but i was trying to stop the cube from melting, which happened the time before.
Do you no chillers wait until low 90's before transfer or what? Does your hose lose a bit of heat as well maybe?

I try to get a bit of a whirlpool happening these days before leaving it no more than about 10-15 minutes. I then open the valve a little and let the decanting begin. It's still *very* hot when it hits the cube. I used to just turn off the power and straight into the cube, but stopped in an effort to reduce the amount of glorp in the cube. Either way, although the cube gets quite nice and soft, both my originals are still in use today and quite serviceable. I'm wondering if you're using a different plastic to me, or if the boiling point of water is higher at your house than mine?

It's a horrible feeling when you botch (or suspect you have botched) a batch - very distressing.

 

[Bobby]

I transfer as soon as i turn the flame out - trub and all goes in. I use the blue cubes from K-mart and have never had an issue with them softening too much. As it happens, it is usually an effort to squeeze them in to expel the air.

 

[SJW]

Yep. From memory I left this one quite a while in the kettle prior to tranfer to the cube. But I might try just dumping straight into the cube and NOT THROWING IN THE POOL to cool.
I am gutted. And a little pissed at 11am Saturday morning. Its a bad feeling. TL might have a point. Refer to "users of the No Chiller Method".
Anyway it is a bad feeling. Any chance this might turn out OK?


Steve

 

[domonsura]

I don't understand this no chill thing to be honest. Now I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but I am conflicted by 3 main points;

1.When I put cold water in a plastic jerry can and leave it for a few days, it comes out tasting distinctively like plastic. This has always been the case, and still is, with every plastic container I have ever used to store water.

2. I have listened to heaps of people on this site express concern about the type of hosing they use to transfer hot/cold liquids around their brewery, even to the point of saying not to use a garden hose to fill their kettle/hlt, because of possible contamination by plasticisers.

3. and yet people are happy to pour nearly boiling wort into plastic containers, softening them horrendously some of them - and leave their fresh wort stewing whatever out of plastic that was never designed to withstand 90 degrees C...............

Please note that my concerns extend only to the plastic side of things, as I'm not really concerned about any possible detrimental effects on the beer by it cooling naturally - because that's up to the individual I suppose - and the method clearly works for lots of people......but are none of you concerned at all about what the plastic leaches into your beer? Not even just a little bit? :huh:

You couldn't pay me to pour my wort straight from the boil into a plastic container...... :mellow:

 

[PostModern]

I dont know what went wrong. I think TL might of hit the nail on the head as (I hate to admit it) it was a pool no chiller.

I think it might have been me.

same here. must be a chilling thing, but i was trying to stop the cube from melting, which happened the time before.
Do you no chillers wait until low 90's before transfer or what? Does your hose lose a bit of heat as well maybe?

Use a proper cube. The big white cube shaped thick HDPE cubes sold by Cospak, Plaspak or whatever they're called these days are idea. The walls are nice and thick, and the shape is right. The jerry-can shaped ones have too tall a side and too narrow a front and back for my liking. They look like they'll bend in a stiff breeze.

My method is to wait until convection stops (when the little chunks of hot break stop circling) then whirlpool for 2-3 mins, then lid the kettle and wait until all movement has again stopped, then rack to cube thru a strong, reinforced hose. When full, seal the lid as tight as I can and flip the cube over to allow the heat to sanitise the lid and inside of the hollow handle. I usually leave it upside down until the next day, then either pitch or store until needed. Done about 20 or 25 brews so far this year and not had a single one go wrong.

 

[PostModern]

I don't understand this no chill thing to be honest. Now I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but I am conflicted by 3 main points;

1.When I put cold water in a plastic jerry can and leave it for a few days, it comes out tasting distinctively like plastic. This has always been the case, and still is, with every plastic container I have ever used to store water.

2. I have listened to heaps of people on this site express concern about the type of hosing they use to transfer hot/cold liquids around their brewery, even to the point of saying not to use a garden hose to fill their kettle/hlt, because of possible contamination by plasticisers.

3. and yet people are happy to pour nearly boiling wort into plastic containers, softening them horrendously some of them - and leave their fresh wort stewing whatever out of plastic that was never designed to withstand 90 degrees C...............

Please note that my concerns extend only to the plastic side of things, as I'm not really concerned about any possible detrimental effects on the beer by it cooling naturally - because that's up to the individual I suppose - and the method clearly works for lots of people......but are none of you concerned at all about what the plastic leaches into your beer? Not even just a little bit? :huh:

You couldn't pay me to pour my wort straight from the boil into a plastic container...... :mellow:

1. Do you ferment in SS or glass?

2. Garden hoses are rubber and not food grade. HDPE uses citric acid as a plasticiser, so at worst you'll leach a little orange juice into your wort.

3. Yep. Food Grade HDPE is stable (ie will not leach plasticisers) at up to 120C. All of this was thoroughly thrashed out in one or the other of the No Chill threads.

But if the vibe is all wrong for you, then don't do it. No-one will hold it against you

 

[Bobby]

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from Domonsura. The thing is, it works and you do not get the plastic taste in the beer.

Alot of the debate on this forum and most others is debate for debates sake. If it works it works. Theory and postulation means nothing if in practice it does not hold true.

Cheers

 

[domonsura]

Yep Pomo, I ferment in plastic - but nothing goes into the plastic hot which was my point. - but thanks for clearing those points up for me about HDPE. I use a chiller, so I was just asking, I haven't bothered to read the no chill thread/s because they are 10 miles long and I don't have a spare 12 months to read it all

Still couldn't pay me to pour my hot wort into HDPE- The vibe is ALL wrong and the feng shui is too bad :lol: I'm too scared I'll come back as a Lion Nathan employee. :blink:

but if it works for you guys, all good!...carry on.......

 

[PostModern]

It's all good brew-brother. Some of my best friends have immersion chillers.

 

[domonsura]

It's all good brew-brother. Some of my best friends have immersion chillers.

What's an immersion chiller? :lol:

 

[bindi]

A little off topic but close.
I have had 2 cubes spit this month doing the NC, mind you they did have had a lot of hot wort in them week after week [90% were NC over night only], so there is a limit to how many times you can put very hot wort in a cube and squeeze any air out only a small split and they held over night with cloth tap over the spilt with the air expelled.
These cubes were the very good food grade ones also, so they do have a life span but well worth it IMHO.

 

[Kingy]

ive just had my first no chill cube expand as well.
I didnt leave notes when i brewed as i got carried away drinking my doppelbock and i found it hard to siphon the hot wort using the mouth and suck method.
This may have had something to do with it.
Ive never up ended the cube while hot to pastuerize the top either. And this particular cube got moved several times over the last week while i rearranged my brew shed.

I should of pitched the yeast a few weeks back but as the yeast was rehydrating the doppelbock got to me and i fell asleep on the lounge.
cheers,kingy

p.s still got another keg to get through of this doppelbock but im to scared to touch it. I always end up messy...

 

[yardy]

Do you no chillers wait until low 90's before transfer or what? Does your hose lose a bit of heat as well maybe?

i give the cube a big iodophor hit at the start of the boil, inverting occasionaly etc...

at flameout i drain the solution and wait until the wort is about 92*C or so after whirlpooling, i then run about 500ml into the cube, (good way of getting rid of any unwanted trub in the tap etc), give it a good shake & drain to get rid of any excess Iodophor (i use an extra strong solution on the cube) and then slowly transfer 25lt of clear wort via food grade hose to the cube ready for pitching in the am.
I'm no AG Guru with my numbers only in the high teens but i havn't had any off flavours, infections etc.

Cheers
Yard

 

[Pumpy]

I don't understand this no chill thing to be honest. Now I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but I am conflicted by 3 main points;

1.When I put cold water in a plastic jerry can and leave it for a few days, it comes out tasting distinctively like plastic. This has always been the case, and still is, with every plastic container I have ever used to store water.

2. I have listened to heaps of people on this site express concern about the type of hosing they use to transfer hot/cold liquids around their brewery, even to the point of saying not to use a garden hose to fill their kettle/hlt, because of possible contamination by plasticisers.

3. and yet people are happy to pour nearly boiling wort into plastic containers, softening them horrendously some of them - and leave their fresh wort stewing whatever out of plastic that was never designed to withstand 90 degrees C...............

Please note that my concerns extend only to the plastic side of things, as I'm not really concerned about any possible detrimental effects on the beer by it cooling naturally - because that's up to the individual I suppose - and the method clearly works for lots of people......but are none of you concerned at all about what the plastic leaches into your beer? Not even just a little bit? :huh:

You couldn't pay me to pour my wort straight from the boil into a plastic container...... :mellow:

Do you sell Fresh Wort Kits ?

 

[Uncle Fester]

I don't understand this no chill thing to be honest. Now I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, but I am conflicted by 3 main points;

1.When I put cold water in a plastic jerry can and leave it for a few days, it comes out tasting distinctively like plastic. This has always been the case, and still is, with every plastic container I have ever used to store water.

Do you ferment in stainless steel, glass, or (perish the thought) Plastic?

I get no noticable taste tainting from the plastic. Then again, water doesn't have a great deal of malt or hops in it to mask the plastic flavours?

Fester.

 

[jimmyjack]

Still couldn't pay me to pour my hot wort into HDPE- The vibe is ALL wrong and the feng shui is too bad I'm too scared I'll come back as a Lion Nathan employee.

Hey maybey you have a point. I started to work for Lion Nathan right around the time I started no chilling Best job I have ever had!

Cheers jj

 

[matti]

Do you no chillers wait until low 90's before transfer or what? Does your hose lose a bit of heat as well maybe?

it only takes 40Litres of boiling water 15 minutes to lose 10 degrees if you leave the lid off.
The longer the food grade hose is the more the temp will drop again.
The cube is also cool and air in it.
All this will contribute the wort to drop in temperature. While still hot to touch, it wouldnt be much higher then 80 degrees leaving it the cube for another 1/2 hour.

The leaching of plastic, if any, will reduce with the temperature drop and completely stop once wort around 65.
So leaving the cube immersed in the pool shouldn't be detrimental. if you are worried, only leave it there until temp dropped to 60.

(Leaving wort to chill in metal pots over night MAY cause a lot more oxidation then in cubes.)