Defining And Categorising Chilling Methods

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PistolPatch

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[I just spent about five minutes trying to find the original No-Chill thread and couldn't find it on the search engines :blink:]

I am in the process of writing another one of my guides ;) and thought I might just have a ramble here on how difficult it is to write a complete all-grain guide because as soon as you get to chilling there are so many different methods.

In the old style of PistolPatch I will write a long post and write as I am thinking. What fun eh?

So far in the guide I am writing which aims to show how to brew an AG from woe to go for complete beginners, on the chilling section I have written...

Flame Out (Boil Ends)

When we turn off our heat source to end the boil, there are many ways of cooling (better known as, chilling,) our wort to get it to the temperature at which yeast should be correctly pitched. All chilling methods have advantages and disadvantages. For example, one method may require a very fussy brewer to make minor recipe adjustments but also allows the quite amazing advantage of any brewer to delay pitching the yeast until many weeks after the boil. Mini BIAB brewers can simply put their kettle into a bath of cool water. Another often ignored and under-valued option is to simply cover the kettle with foil and allow it to cool overnight.

Methods of chilling are numerous and often not well-defined. "The Basics of Chilling," defines, categorises and explains these numerous chilling methods in a format that is easy for all brewers to follow. Before brewing your first all-grain beer, you should have read, "The Basics of Chilling," and decided on your chilling method.

The aim of all chilling methods is to maintain the integrity of the wort until it is ready to be pitched.

Obviously I haven't written, "The Basics of Chilling," yet, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here ;)

So, how do we categorise and explain these numerous but so ill-defined chilling methods?

My thoughts so far are as follows...

New standards and descriptions of chilling definitely need to be established. Existing descriptions and terminology only confuse new and existing brewers. I am thinking that it would have been better (if we could re-write history) that chilling be categorised as to when you needed to pitch your yeast. For example,

Delayed Pitch: If you are brewing wort that you want to pitch at your leisure, you will obviously need to follow what I think has erroneously (but correctly at the spur of the moment) been coined as, "the No-Chill method," which requires a sterilised vessel (commonly known as a, "cube,") that can remain airtight for some time. In other words, you need to use silicone hose to syphon (via tap or otherwise) your wort to a sterilised food-grade cube that will remain airtight until the time you choose to transfer it to your fermenter and pitch your yeast. There are obvious and real advantages and disadvantages to this method. It is also a method that might require some recipe modification depending on how fussy a brewer is.

Slow Pitch: I am thinking that this is the ideal method for a brewer who does not have, "fast," chilling equipment but wants to pitch asap. It simply involves covering the kettle with foil. I have done it a few times and the beer has been fine. It just requires good sanitisation practices which should be standard anyway. I keep a bit of an eye on slow and no-chill (delayed pitch) stuff but I think it is crazy to advise people to transfer the wort to a fermenter and then let it cool. It just doubles the chance of infection as far as I can see. Unfortunately this method is commonly referred to as no-chill. The only similarity it has to no-chill is that it might require some recipe modification depending on how fussy a brewer is.

Fast Pitch: Anything that involves rapidly chilling the wort such as using an immersion, plate or counter-flow chiller could perhaps be considered as a, "fast pitch," method. Most recipes are conveyed with this assumption and while it might be considered the, "safest," way to pitch wort, it is nearly always unachievable in the majority of world climates. Most of us can never get to our pitching temperatures quickly and have to compromise. Rarely this compromise is discussed. Most books and guides avoid this problem by simply saying, "Chill your wort to pitching temperature." God bless 'em ;).

When writing guides, I'm not really into avoidance hence my post here.

Anyway, being the picky bugger that I am, I'd be interested to see how you reply to this topic as I'd like to get this guide as correct as possible. I also seriously think that chilling is a subject that needs to get its definitions correct now before it totally bewilders the next generation of all-grain brewers.

For my old mates, sorry if the above was not long or wild enough. I had a wink placed here but apparently I have used too many emoticons.
Pat
 
Fast Pitch: Anything that involves rapidly chilling the wort such as using an immersion, plate or counter-flow chiller could perhaps be considered as a, "fast pitch," method. Most recipes are conveyed with this assumption and while it might be considered the, "safest," way to pitch wort, it is nearly always unachievable in the majority of world climates. Most of us can never get to our pitching temperatures quickly and have to compromise. Rarely this compromise is discussed. Most books and guides avoid this problem by simply saying, "Chill your wort to pitching temperature." God bless 'em ;) .
I like the concept of the 3 categories you've used, it seems logical and sensible to me.

However, you really do need to define 'rapid' and 'quickly' in the quoted text above.
While I agree that most books etc simply gloss over and assume that all home-brewers can chill quickly - which is obviously not true - I'm also not sure you can make the opposite generalization and say that "Most of us can never get to our pitching temperatures quickly".
Are you suggesting that even with a (whirlpooled) immersion chiller, counter flow chiller or plate chiller that home-brewers still cannot get to pitching temperatures 'quickly' enough? ... or are you saying that most home-brewers do not have such rapid-cooling devices (which may or may not be true)?

I was off the understanding that the rapid-cooling devices mentioned above can reduce DMS production, ensue adequate sanitation before yeast is pitched and provide control to (late) hop utilization/flavours/aromas, and thus they do a fairly resonable job of the task required?
 
I disagree with your assertion of fast pitching, it is nearly always unachievable in the majority of world climates. If a brewer has access to enough water to brew with and to clean up with they can chill for fast pitching.

Blichmann Therminator is rated as follows: With 5 gpm 58 water in; output = 2 gpm 68 wort out @ 1.040 S.G. (Presumably, the wort input temperature is 212)

"Per a conversation I had (not nime) with Mr. Blichmann, that cooler will chill a 31 gallon batch in about 12 minutes. Go big!"

So if you have enough water to brew 117 liters you can chill it in 12 minutes with less then 300 liters of water. I am not familiar with the tank temperatures for people that use them but I would hope they are not out in the sun and are at least as cool as 68F or 20C. If you are brewing 100 liter batches, recycling 300 liters of water should not be hard.

Not saying that other ways to chill are not valid. I do question setting the pot out to cool. I set a corny keg full of hot water out over night in near freezing temperatures to chill for carbing. The next morning it was hot to the touch.

If you are going to list different methods of chilling then I would list them by price and best effect. No-chill would have to go first in my opinion and I have not ever done it. Then an immersion coil followed by a counter flow chiller. A home made counter flow would cost less but the difficulty in making one for most people would make the coil the first choice. Then a commercial counter flow or a plate chiller. I would follow with ice bath or setting the pot in a sink as I only consider these as a last resort when no other method is available.

For brewers with low water resources that want to use a water based chiller. Tips on saving water or using more complicated methods of multi stage chillers should be listed.

Each method needs to have all the good and bad points discussed so the brewer can make the best decision for their own situation. The problem with such a guide is most brewers will never read it until they have started brewing and already made a chilling decision based on what they were told to do by the person that got them started in brewing.
 
I agree that chilling methods should be defined and explained as there have been some advances and methods over the times, although every book I have read on the subject of brewing defines the brewing process in separate steps. The step between the end of the boil and fermentation is described as chilling (because that's what we are doing chilling the wort)to change the wording of this process would probably add further confusion to the subject as I think pitching is related to fermentation more so than chilling, when describing the the brewing process.

I do understand that chilling is to achieve the correct fermentation temperature and this is probably where the confusion starts RE- the limited explanations on the subject of chilling (remember we are chilling the wort not pitching yet).

If I had to write a description of the chilling processes I would eliminate the wording (no chill) as I feel this is confusing.
Good luck with it all, looking forward to the read, not to long winded I hope. :(

Cheers.gregs
 
I understand the comment that many of us are nearly always unable to achieve pitching temperatures in the majority of world climates.
Certainly in many parts of Australia through the warmer months, the ambient ground and water temperature is often in the mid 20C range, and it is impossible to get the wort temperature below this, no matter how many litres of water we use in whatever chilling means we employ.

In mid winter, my immersion chiller will get a 23 litre batch down to about 18C in 10 minutes. In midsummer, I struggle to get it down to 25C in 30 minutes. I can use a pre-chiller coil, immersed in iced water, which will knock off a few more C. Normally, I drain to the fermenter at 25C, and place the fermenter in the fridge. It will be down to 18C later that evening or early the next morning, and I pitch my starter at that time.

I would dearly love to have a method which allows me to get the wort quickly down to pitching temperatures, but I don't think it is practicable in my climate.

This thread is a great idea, and I look forward to following it with interest.
 
SOT (sorta off topic)

i have never done any chlling, havent moved to AG yet.

Couldn't we use dry ice somehow?

Seriously. Its heavy duty stuff. Dangerous too, but so many other things we do in brewing is dangerous too. Used correctly it would have to be a winner....(i just dont know what 'correctly' is.....) :)

rendo

I understand the comment that many of us are nearly always unable to achieve pitching temperatures in the majority of world climates.
Certainly in many parts of Australia through the warmer months, the ambient ground and water temperature is often in the mid 20C range, and it is impossible to get the wort temperature below this, no matter how many litres of water we use in whatever chilling means we employ.

In mid winter, my immersion chiller will get a 23 litre batch down to about 18C in 10 minutes. In midsummer, I struggle to get it down to 25C in 30 minutes. I can use a pre-chiller coil, immersed in iced water, which will knock off a few more C. Normally, I drain to the fermenter at 25C, and place the fermenter in the fridge. It will be down to 18C later that evening or early the next morning, and I pitch my starter at that time.

I would dearly love to have a method which allows me to get the wort quickly down to pitching temperatures, but I don't think it is practicable in my climate.

This thread is a great idea, and I look forward to following it with interest.
 
SOT (sorta off topic)

i have never done any chlling, havent moved to AG yet.

Couldn't we use dry ice somehow?

Seriously. Its heavy duty stuff. Dangerous too, but so many other things we do in brewing is dangerous too. Used correctly it would have to be a winner....(i just dont know what 'correctly' is.....) :)

rendo

Dry Ice will result in serious explosiveness iirc from an older thread.

Certainly a dangerous option for chilling.

Edit: A link discussing dry ice...
Topic 1

No Chill cube storage
 
I disagree with your assertion of fast pitching, it is nearly always unachievable in the majority of world climates. If a brewer has access to enough water to brew with and to clean up with they can chill for fast pitching.

Blichmann Therminator is rated as follows: With 5 gpm 58 water in; output = 2 gpm 68 wort out @ 1.040 S.G. (Presumably, the wort input temperature is 212)

"Per a conversation I had (not nime) with Mr. Blichmann, that cooler will chill a 31 gallon batch in about 12 minutes. Go big!"

So if you have enough water to brew 117 liters you can chill it in 12 minutes with less then 300 liters of water. I am not familiar with the tank temperatures for people that use them but I would hope they are not out in the sun and are at least as cool as 68F or 20C. If you are brewing 100 liter batches, recycling 300 liters of water should not be hard.

Not saying that other ways to chill are not valid. I do question setting the pot out to cool. I set a corny keg full of hot water out over night in near freezing temperatures to chill for carbing. The next morning it was hot to the touch.

If you are going to list different methods of chilling then I would list them by price and best effect. No-chill would have to go first in my opinion and I have not ever done it. Then an immersion coil followed by a counter flow chiller. A home made counter flow would cost less but the difficulty in making one for most people would make the coil the first choice. Then a commercial counter flow or a plate chiller. I would follow with ice bath or setting the pot in a sink as I only consider these as a last resort when no other method is available.

For brewers with low water resources that want to use a water based chiller. Tips on saving water or using more complicated methods of multi stage chillers should be listed.

Each method needs to have all the good and bad points discussed so the brewer can make the best decision for their own situation. The problem with such a guide is most brewers will never read it until they have started brewing and already made a chilling decision based on what they were told to do by the person that got them started in brewing.

Um.. I have used a plate chiller in the past, fair enough not a Therminator, but that level of performance sounds like "cough - bullshit - cough" to me. Sure, plate chillers are more efficient than other forms of chilling, but they aren't that damn good. Unless the Therminator is a quantum leap of some sort anyway, it might be I suppose.

Aside from that, I agree with your comments above. If you are going to list the options, its probably worth doing a for and against for each method.
 
Warra's post is informative, because he's at the southernmost end of the 'near subtropical' range and anyone living North of where he is, and we are talking about probably a quarter to a third of Aussie home brewers will have the same problems for most of the year. That's why I have avoided buying a chiller because for eight months of the year hereabouts, you can just about shower with the 'cold' water supply. It's so warm that I have a solar unit and don't need to turn on the electric booster from August to May the next year.

In an old movie about the Gestapo they were seen torturing a prisoner by slowly running a hose over his naked body. The whole family burst into hysterics "God, here we would be thanking them for the cool off job :lol: "

So using a plate or counterflow chiller you really need to get some prechillled water, maybe a couple of bags of ice or something, and we are talking about massive friggn around and expense. I would suspect that many brewers in the Northern Half who use immersion chillers might run the wort off into a cube anyway and finish it off for a few hours in the fridge or chest freezer before pitching? Anyone do this?

Now, on the other hand, by running the wort into the cube, letting it cool overnight to around 35 degrees, putting into fridge and finishing it off, I can usually pitch in about 24 to 30 hours. I brewed a lager on Thursday, cubed it around 8 pm, fridged it yesterday morning and pitched last night when I got home from work at 11 pm and it was at 17 degrees, 13 this morning. i.e. 27 hours from boil to pitch.

Sorry to add complications but that's an example of a "delayed pitch" method - using a cube - actually being a "slow pitch". And a "fast pitch" method done by someone in, say Townsville using a plate chiller then continuing to cool in a cube or the fermenter in the fridge - has actually become a "slow pitch" as well.

Don't forget the other method of using the fermenter as a sort of cube, and cooling overnight then pitching directly. I did this all the time in the UK and it would be most suitable for Melb and Syd etc in the winter if the fermenter is in a cold spot in the house. That would be a "slow pitch".

So what I'm saying is that I agree with PP's new classification but there are big overlaps in the types of equipment and timeframes which enable you to do the fast slow or delayed methods. Rather than confuse a brand new brewer I'd tend to go for some classification that was along the lines of:

  1. Cooling and pitching as quickly as possible using the equipment available to you
  2. Preparing a wort that can be pitched whenever you like, as long as it's cool enough
 
Um.. I have used a plate chiller in the past, fair enough not a Therminator, but that level of performance sounds like "cough - bullshit - cough" to me. Sure, plate chillers are more efficient than other forms of chilling, but they aren't that damn good. Unless the Therminator is a quantum leap of some sort anyway, it might be I suppose.

Aside from that, I agree with your comments above. If you are going to list the options, its probably worth doing a for and against for each method.

I believe that the Therminator is a counter flow chiller. Most of the brewers I know either use a coil chiller or if they have a system they use a counter flow chiller. Not sure if your plate chiller is the same or not. Here a plate chiller is a big heat sink that is usually cooled by ice and the desired liquid is run through the device. Common in soda machines at stores. They have the ice for the drinks and use the plate chiller to cool the water before mixing with the syrup.

Every counter flow chiller I have seen used will chill to pitching temp as fast as you can run the worth through it. We do have cold water and lots of it. Still a counter flow chiller uses considerably less water then a coil chiller. It still is a good option for you even if you have to run your tank water through a cool box first. Reducing tank water from 25C to 14C is easier then cooling 100C to 20C.
 
Hey, thanks a heap for your replies so far.

I can already see that I have incorrectly dismissed using the fermenter to chill. This actually is a quite valid option as the brewer can chill it in the fridge and also avoids a transfer at temps that are friendly to nasties. (Chilling overnight in the kettle often still leaves the brew at well over 30 degrees the next morning depending on ambient temperature. This often means a transfer at temps ideal for bacteria etc followed by a further delay in pitching.)

I still have three worries about fermenter chilling...

1. Can nearly all fermenters handle the heat?
2. Can you lift a fermenter full of very hot wort?
3. Will throwing a fermenter full of hot wort into your fridge wreck your fridge?

I suspect my last two questions are silly ones as the idea is probably to leave the fermenter at ambient overnight and then put it in your fridge.

Once again, thanks for all the above. The feedback is very helpful.

:icon_cheers:
Pat
 
Hey, thanks a heap for your replies so far.

I can already see that I have incorrectly dismissed using the fermenter to chill. This actually is a quite valid option as the brewer can chill it in the fridge and also avoids a transfer at temps that are friendly to nasties. (Chilling overnight in the kettle often still leaves the brew at well over 30 degrees the next morning depending on ambient temperature. This often means a transfer at temps ideal for bacteria etc followed by a further delay in pitching.)

I still have three worries about fermenter chilling...

1. Can nearly all fermenters handle the heat?
2. Can you lift a fermenter full of very hot wort?
3. Will throwing a fermenter full of hot wort into your fridge wreck your fridge?

I suspect my last two questions are silly ones as the idea is probably to leave the fermenter at ambient overnight and then put it in your fridge.

Once again, thanks for all the above. The feedback is very helpful.

:icon_cheers:

Pat


Hi Pat, regarding fermenter chilling, which is what I do, I've got the white 30L fementers and would have put well over 100 nochill brews in them probably more like 150. The plastic does seem to go a little soft with the heat, but you can still pick it up by the handle indents. I've often thought of the consequences of the plastic tearing while carrying it and raising it up onto a table, would not be pretty. So I guess that answers 1 and 2, as for 3, I tried that once thinking I would cool the wort down quicker in the fridge, I came back 2 hrs later and when I opened the fridge door it was like opening an oven. Never tried it since.

cheers

Browndog
 
Pat,

I only run my wort into the fermenter after I've chilled as far as I can go with my immersion chiller.

I seal the fermenter with a couple of layers of clingwrap, and then place it in the fridge.
I also place my starter in the fridge, so that when I get to pitch, they are basically at the same temperature.
Personally, I've not experienced problems doing this.

I would never drain near boiling wort into my fermenter, although I guess the 'no chill' brewers do exactly that with their plastic jerries.
 
Pat and his posers (in the sense that he makes me think)
Just off the cuff here are some obvious categories with a few pros and cons tacked on

No Chill
Hot wort goes into a sealed container, slow cooling allows the hot wort to Pasteurise the wort/container, preventing infection.

Ambient Cooling
Letting the wort cool either in the kettle or in an unsealed sealed container like a fermenter.

Open Cooling
Where the wort is cooled in the kettle or another container, but remains open to atmosphere during cooling. Various methods like putting the kettle into an ice bath, putting in an immersion chillier. Just for fun I once tried freezing about 3 Kg of M10 SS nuts (sterilised) and dropping them into the wort to see how much cooling effect they had.

Counter Flow Cooling (Heat Exchanges)
Where the wort is cooled during transfer, covers Plate Chillers, Pipe in Pipe Chillers and industrial versions like Spiral Flow and Shell heat exchanges

Pros and Cons

No Chill
Low cost, reliable and convenient. No improved separation of break material, increased chance of formation of Dialectal precursors if the boil wasn't adequate. The possibility of many as yet fully explored reactions taking place.
Please before those passionate no chillers out there start planning a lynching, I No Chill, just be open to the idea that no chill is new and we are still learning.

Ambient Cooling
Low/No extra cost, highest risk of infection. Otherwise as above.

Open Cooling
Relatively low cost equipment, reasonable break formation, some risk of infection, reasonably fast end to all chemical changes in the wort.

Counter Flow Cooling
Most expensive to set up, fast giving good break formation and a quick end to all chemical reactions.
Heat Exchangers are the Number 1 identified seat of infection in breweries and require high levels of maintenance to give good safe service.

Hope this makes sense.

MHB
 
Nice points MHB

One caveat I would add to the heat exchange section is that home sized versions of plate heat exchangers (Katzke, I mean the brazed plate chillers exactly like the Therminator in construction, possibly different in surface area, number of plates etc etc) is that unlike industrial versions, they are pretty easy to keep sanitary. You can't fit an industrial plate chiller in your oven... but you can with a Therminator or Chillout etc etc. So as long as you are aware that they will eventually lose efficiecny and performance as they slowly build up biofilm, then you can keep them perfectly free of infection by covering the in/outlets in a cap of tinfoil and baking that ******* in the oven. No mucking about, flat out for an hour or two and then its sterile as can be.

You of course cant do that with a pipe in hose counterflow chiller, but as long as its an all metal version .. then whacking things in the oven virtually eliminates infection as an issue.

The other things with heat exchange versions of wort cooling .. is that you absolutely need one of these if you want to extract the real benefit of a hop-back.
 
I still have three worries about fermenter chilling...

1. Can nearly all fermenters handle the heat?
2. Can you lift a fermenter full of very hot wort?
3. Will throwing a fermenter full of hot wort into your fridge wreck your fridge?


:icon_cheers:
Pat

To add to your not everyone can argument.

Not everyone ferments in plastic. Putting boiling hot wort in a glass fermenter presents problems. I would think twice about promoting that one.
 
Pat and his posers (in the sense that he makes me think)
Just off the cuff here are some obvious categories with a few pros and cons tacked on

No Chill
Hot wort goes into a sealed container, slow cooling allows the hot wort to Pasteurise the wort/container, preventing infection.

Ambient Cooling
Letting the wort cool either in the kettle or in an unsealed sealed container like a fermenter.

Open Cooling
Where the wort is cooled in the kettle or another container, but remains open to atmosphere during cooling. Various methods like putting the kettle into an ice bath, putting in an immersion chillier. Just for fun I once tried freezing about 3 Kg of M10 SS nuts (sterilised) and dropping them into the wort to see how much cooling effect they had.

Counter Flow Cooling (Heat Exchanges)
Where the wort is cooled during transfer, covers Plate Chillers, Pipe in Pipe Chillers and industrial versions like Spiral Flow and Shell heat exchanges

Pros and Cons

No Chill
Low cost, reliable and convenient. No improved separation of break material, increased chance of formation of Dialectal precursors if the boil wasn't adequate. The possibility of many as yet fully explored reactions taking place.
Please before those passionate no chillers out there start planning a lynching, I No Chill, just be open to the idea that no chill is new and we are still learning.

Ambient Cooling
Low/No extra cost, highest risk of infection. Otherwise as above.

Open Cooling
Relatively low cost equipment, reasonable break formation, some risk of infection, reasonably fast end to all chemical changes in the wort.

Counter Flow Cooling
Most expensive to set up, fast giving good break formation and a quick end to all chemical reactions.
Heat Exchangers are the Number 1 identified seat of infection in breweries and require high levels of maintenance to give good safe service.

Hope this makes sense.

MHB

One more

Slow Chill
Hot wort goes into a sealed container, and then the container is immersed into water to help the rate of cooling. Helps minimise the time the late hop additions are in very hot water.


QldKev
 
One more

Slow Chill
Hot wort goes into a sealed container, and then the container is immersed into water to help the rate of cooling. Helps minimise the time the late hop additions are in very hot water.


QldKev


This could get long.

Perhaps its worth a post about... "every single way I have ever heard that anyone has cooled their wort" - before you try to make categories? So that it doesn't degenerate into a straight "you haven't listed the way I do it" festival

Then once thats out of the way - attempt to sort it into rough groups, and discuss some of the major pros and cons of each major group. I understand that's what you are attempting to do anyway, but unless its given a chance to happen, I think it will naturally degenerate into a free for all of "how I do it" comments.

New Topic - Every way there is to cool wort... a list

"Read the whole Topic - and if your method of Cooling Wort from boiling to pitching temperature has not been mentioned, post it"

It'll be messy, but then some kind soul (bags not me) gets to sort it all out and write an article from the result.
 
For many years, while doing extract brews, I used the "kettle in a bathtub" cooling method. You run cold water in the tub first, then sit your kettle in it. The ideal amount of water is at the same level as the wort so that the kettle doesn't try to float in the tub.

With extract brews, it works well. You boil about 40% of your wort, cool that part, then add 60% cold water. You don't have to chill the boiled part down to pitching temperature that way and you get results pretty quickly. I hops you cover this in your guide for those just getting started who are on a budget.

Now I use an immersion chiller. It's fast enough for all grain and even faster for extract brews (assuming that you don't boil the entire volume).
 
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