Nelson Sauvin In Dipa

[MitchDudarko]

So i'm planning something big for the new year.
38L Batch, aiming for around 10% and 100IBU
14kg Pale Malt
1.5kg Caramel/Crystal
1kg Carared
The Hop Schedule as follows:
10g Cascade
10g Galaxy
10g Riwaka and;
10g of either Chinook or Nelson Sauvin
Each of the above every ten mins from 60mins to Flameout. I'm just not sure as to whether the NS would be a good substitute for the Chinook. Will have to tweak quantities to reach 100IBU i'm guessing. I don't have beersmith due to a computer mishap.
Opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Mitch

 

[browndog]

Mitch, I reckon with the galaxy and riwaka there, you probably would not notice if you used either the NS or chinook. personally I'd go with the chinook, I reckon it is fantastic in big beers.

cheers

Browndog

 

[BreathingHeat]

We brewed 6.5 gallons of this Bell's Hopslam inspired DIPA last Sunday (OG 1.08).

Grain Bill
...
13 lbs. - Maris Otter Malt
1 lbs. - Munich Malt
1 lbs. - CaraPils
0.75 lbs. - Weyermann Carahell
3 lbs. - Table Sugar (end of boil)

Mash at 150-152 for 75 minutes

Hop Schedule

1.5 oz. - Centennial [9.7%] (75 min.)
1 oz. - Simcoe [12.2%] (60 min.)
1.5 oz. - Centennial [9.7%] (20 min.)
1 oz. - Centennial [9.7%] (15 min.)
1 oz. - Cascade Leaf [7.6%](10 min.)
1 oz. - Centennial [9.7%] (1 min.)
1 oz. - Cascade Leaf [7.6%] (1 min.)

2.5 oz. - Simcoe [12.2%] (Dry Hop in primary during week 2)

It's really the Simcoe hops that sing Hopslam. Opening the packet was literally like cracking a fresh bottle of it. We substituted other hops with Centennial and Cascade because we had them on hand. The dry hopping will be straight Simcoe though. We had 3 different hop socks going during the boil to get the most out of the hops. It was awesome.

Yeast- Am. Ale 1056 (pitched at 70)
Gypsum for water
Irish moss for clarity

Since we're going through a bit of a cold snap, we're fermenting in the low to mid 60s. It's bubbling away like a clock. About 1 bubble per second. Big gnarly krausen on top.

 

[peas_and_corn]

A little OT I know, but- is riwaka a NZ variety of an American hop? If so, which one?

 

[mika]

And just to be at odds with everyone else, I'd use the Nelson Sauvin, I can imagine it's flavours complimenting the others better than Chinook. I'd agree that it's going to be hidden somewhat, but I reckon it would add to the complexity.

You a member of the Kalgoorlie brewers Mitch ?

 

[Bizier]

Just deleted my post there, as I thought that the material was confusing because it used the name Motueka, but just realised that the info in both instances is speaking for both varieites.

Now quoting from here:
http://www.nzhops.co.nz/varieties/pdf/riwaka.pdf

Breeding: A triploid aroma type bred during the development of New Zealand hops
hops with a difference programme. Riwaka also came out of this plantbreeding
strategy through crossing Old Line Saazer with specially
developed New Zealand breeding selections. Released by HortResearch
Riwaka Hop Research Centre in 1997.

 

[Bizier]

And on topic, I have not been that impressed when I have used NS in large amounts in IIPAs. I guess it is all about what you want, but it did not give me what I want. I wanted that mouth-filling resiny thing that hops like Chinook or Simcoe give, but found it sort of too clean. I have still been adding it to my IPAs, but in more of a supporting role, and only late.

I think that the Chinook would be good, because you already have Galaxy there, but NS could also be good, and I assume the tropical NZ-ish flavours would dominate.

I like your big slug of crystal. Grrr.

Post flameout / dry hopping?

 

[MitchDudarko]

Mika - I certainly am one of the Kalgoorlie Brewers...

Bizier - I'm a sucker for crystal... We used this grain bill on another IIPA but with a different hopping schedule, and it's not over the top IMO.

I'm leaning towards the Chinook (I'd originally planned to use it) and maybe dry hop the NS... OR... If I can get my act together, I'll try to make a hopback and chuck them in that.

 

[schooey]

A little OT I know, but- is riwaka a NZ variety of an American hop? If so, which one?

Nope... Riwaka are kiwi hops... DSaaz

edit: Oh and to the OP; I personally wouldn't use the nS in that much quantity throughout the brew. I think you will notice it, but it will be sightly abrasive, but that's just my opinion of course. Just because you are building a big 100 IBU beer, it doesn't mean that it still doesn't need balance.

I recently did a beer along these lines and was thinking NS. In the end I added some in dry hop with a little centennial and it had the punters guessing... flavours below the threshold a-la Gordon Strong

 

[speedie]

How do you plane to get 10% from your suggested brew

What yeast is envisaged?

Water development

Ferment temps

And generally good luck

Merry xmas

 

[hoohaaman]

Nope... Riwaka are kiwi hops... DSaaz

edit: Oh and to the OP; I personally wouldn't use the nS in that much quantity throughout the brew. I think you will notice it, but it will be sightly abrasive, but that's just my opinion of course. Just because you are building a big 100 IBU beer, it doesn't mean that it still doesn't need balance.

I recently did a beer along these lines and was thinking NS. In the end I added some in dry hop with a little centennial and it had the punters guessing... flavours below the threshold a-la Gordon Strong

so very true.NS late and flame out will add complexity character.NS early and in fair amounts is very intrusive.

Whether the IBU be 13 or 100 balance is always the key

 

[Silo Ted]

How do you plane to get 10% from your suggested brew

Why do you question it, do you for some reason think it's not possible? A quick calculation of 16kg grain for 38L batch with an OG of 1.097 and an FG of 1.024 puts it at around 9.6%. Give or take a few attenuation points, he's pretty much at the 10% he's suggesting.

 

[MitchDudarko]

Yeah, the American Ale 2 wyeast claims to ferment to 10%. In the original post I said 'around' 10%... A few points off isn't going to bother me. What will bother me is trying to get a good balance of Bitterness and residual sweetness. Oh, and making a hopback that will work first time around.

 

[speedie]

mitch how did your brew go
did you get your expected yeild for a 10% brew
please let us know what your tasting report on hop profile is
all the best for this coming year
speedie

 

[Pollux]

I used all NS for a big DIPA for the NSW July Case Swap last year, seemed to go down well.......

NS has always been my favourite hop, well, that and cascade.

 

[MitchDudarko]

I haven't brewed it yet, I need to buy hops & yeast

Made a few changes to the original recipe too:

Recipe: Impregnator MKII
Brewer: Mitch Dudarko
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 38.00 L
Boil Size: 43.50 L
Estimated OG: 1.102 SG
Estimated Color: 20.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 93.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
15.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 90.91 %
1.00 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (59.1 EBC) Grain 6.06 %
0.50 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.03 %
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (70 min) (First Wort HopHops 6.5 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (70 min) (First Wort Hop)Hops 2.8 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (70 min) (First Wort HopHops 2.4 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (70 min) (First Wort HoHops 5.5 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (60 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (60 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (50 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (50 min) Hops 4.6 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (50 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (50 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (40 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (40 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (40 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (30 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (30 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (30 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (30 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
10.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (20 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
15.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (10 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
15.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (10 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 0.6 IBU
15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
15.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
15.00 gm Riwaka [5.90 %] (5 min) Hops 0.7 IBU


I'm going to use Wyeast 1272.

 

[browndog]

That is not a barley wine, its a IIPA, no complexity in the malt there Mitch.

cheers

Browndog

 

[MitchDudarko]

Oh, I've entered the wrong category in Beersmith!

BTW, If I was to turn it into a barleywine, what changes would you suggest making to the grain bill?

 

[gregs]

Why the so over complicated hop schedule?

 

[MitchDudarko]

Because I can
It's kinda inspired by Dogfish Head's 90 & 60min IPA's. We originally did a recipe that was all Liberty, Citra, Simcoe, and Amarillo, 10g of each every 10mins during the boil. It's aging rather nicely too, but after some advice I've dropped alot of the crystal malts