Move To All Grain For Thirty Bucks

[Florian]

Awesome, I went back to Warring Mall Big W and found the stock pot. Got the last lid too!

I also found a digital thermometer for $18 but I think it is a different one to the one you got. It was a Pyrex one but it didn't say anything about being .1 degree accurate, and it only displays whole degrees. Still I tested it in a small pot of boiling water and it hit 100C just as it started a rolling boil so I think it is accurate.

Mine's from 'Ekco', what a strange name. It worked a treat though, after I managed to open the battery door thingy.

 

[Nick JD]

...you should edit in a link to a recipe so that beginners can see how it matches up.

Good idea, but the edit button's gone from those really old posts. The recipe used for this example was a better "example" beer than an actual good recipe. I suggest people trying this method would be much better scaling down one of the tried and true recipes like Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. Or go to the RecipeDB and look at any of the 5 star rated recipes that have a lot of posting activity on them.

I threw all those ingredients together on the spur of the moment to showcase dark, caramel and foam spec malts - and hop pellets and flowers, with early and late additions to capture the entire range in one example. In that sense there's much better beers out there! :icon_cheers:

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

After a few years of extract brewing (I gave up the kit pretty quick, but stuck with extra + grain for flavour), I'm going to try this as a partial grain brew (don't have the equipment for AG of the quantity I want).

Fantastic guide though - I think this should be a stick/perm and the lack of jargon in the guide (combined with the conservative use of it in the subsequent posts) has finally attached photo/understanding to concept/jargon. I've read enough guides and books, and this has simplified it, and then I've gone back and used the simplification to get the knowledge better cemented. And I'm not an idiot by any means.

My only question - what about lagers? Here in Bris-vegas, we are having unusually cool weather (and my new house has a cellar), meaning I could actually attempt to ferment outside the fridge (before bottling and sticking them in the fridge). This gives me a window to get a lager going for summer (something that is usually impossible in Qld - as even in winter, some days can be up to 30 degrees).

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I have a 9L pot I know this a 9L mash, so I'd have to drop to say 8L to give headroom (or 7L). How much does that affect efficiency.

The reason I ask is that the 9L pot is a fantastic heavy bottom thing, and would be ideal for a brew otherwise. Notwithstanding the fact that it saves me $20 at big w getting a paper thin pot to do it myself.

Other question (may have been asked) - is a butane cooker (the camping ones, or the ones that japanese restaurants used to keep your food sizzling as it comes to you), with the cans going to be good enough for a 20L pot (should I need to purchase it).

Thanks in advance, this forum is a goldmine.

 

[barneyb]

Did my first AG this weekend using this method. I couldn't believe how easy it was, more time consuming than anything.

The odd thing was that even though I started with 10L, after the boil I was left with only 5L. I knew that I'd lose some water to the boil, but not half of it! I was able to add 2L to get the OG to 1048, so added another 2.5L with 330g of LDME to get it up to 10L with an OG of 1050. I wonder what happened as I calculated my pre-boil SG as being spot on 1050.

It may have been in my head but I swear I could already taste the difference in the wort compared to my extract brews. I think the analogy of cooking a pasta sauce from a can compared to cooking it from scratch is pretty spot on.

Another convert Nick, I'm already looking forward to the next one. :icon_cheers:

 

[peterhop]

I have a 9L pot I know this a 9L mash ...

a butane cooker ...

You loose water many ways: soaks into the grain, as water (liquid) in the bag when you take it out, evaporates when you boil, left in the kettle with the hot break when you remove the wort to the fermenter. More is left with the yeast in the bottom of the fermenter.

I'd say a 9 L pot was too small to be worth the effort. I have a 17 L big W pot, fill it to the max for BIAB and get 7 to 8 L of boiled wort. I make it a bit concentrated and add about 2 L of cold water to the fermenter before the wort to make a bit under 10 L of beer. This size pot is fine for my stove-top (gas).

 

[batemanbrewer]

Good idea, but the edit button's gone from those really old posts. The recipe used for this example was a better "example" beer than an actual good recipe. I suggest people trying this method would be much better scaling down one of the tried and true recipes like Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. Or go to the RecipeDB and look at any of the 5 star rated recipes that have a lot of posting activity on them.

I threw all those ingredients together on the spur of the moment to showcase dark, caramel and foam spec malts - and hop pellets and flowers, with early and late additions to capture the entire range in one example. In that sense there's much better beers out there! :icon_cheers:

Fair enough, I just thought it'd be a good idea so that beginners could see where the specs in the recipe correlate with what you're doing as you explain it in the thread. Not especially for the particular recipe.

 

[Nick JD]

I have a 9L pot I know this a 9L mash, so I'd have to drop to say 8L to give headroom (or 7L). How much does that affect efficiency.

The reason I ask is that the 9L pot is a fantastic heavy bottom thing, and would be ideal for a brew otherwise. Notwithstanding the fact that it saves me $20 at big w getting a paper thin pot to do it myself.

Other question (may have been asked) - is a butane cooker (the camping ones, or the ones that japanese restaurants used to keep your food sizzling as it comes to you), with the cans going to be good enough for a 20L pot (should I need to purchase it).

Thanks in advance, this forum is a goldmine.

You could do as small a batch as you want. Everything is scaleable (as long as you don't try to boil in a frypan - you'll end up with liquid extract). The same shaped pot, just smaller is fine.

The paper thin pots are probably better for this type of thing because you don't have to spend much energy heating the actual pot up - just its contents. The towels take care of keeping that heat in.

You require quite a lot of energy to bring 10L of liquid to the boil - probably more than a camping stove has in it. Electricity is WAY cheaper than LPG, and energy costs for long boil batches can be as much as say, your hops - so it's something to consider. One of the best things about electricity is it doesn't run out on your halfway through a boil and you have to climb the neighbour's fence, tackle their Rottweiler and steal their BBQ bottle.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

You could do as small a batch as you want. Everything is scaleable (as long as you don't try to boil in a frypan - you'll end up with liquid extract). The same shaped pot, just smaller is fine.

The paper thin pots are probably better for this type of thing because you don't have to spend much energy heating the actual pot up - just its contents. The towels take care of keeping that heat in.

You require quite a lot of energy to bring 10L of liquid to the boil - probably more than a camping stove has in it. Electricity is WAY cheaper than LPG, and energy costs for long boil batches can be as much as say, your hops - so it's something to consider. One of the best things about electricity is it doesn't run out on your halfway through a boil and you have to climb the neighbour's fence, tackle their Rottweiler and steal their BBQ bottle.

Thanks heaps - actually your 20L on the stove post answered the next question. The reason I wanted to use the burner is that the laundry sink is downstair (and downstairs has more room) to cool quickly. But the "ice cube in the wort" trick seems to answer my question about how to cool quickly (I have 3 kids and no time to go back to a brew the next day).

Thanks for both guides.

I've been reading (and thinking about my technique in the partial grain brews I've done for years) - I often get a sieve above my fermenter and run cold water through the grain in the sieve (keep in mind only about a kilo of grain - it is a partial) - would I be able to run cold water through the Swiss Voile (if I hang it above the open fermenter) to extract the max sugaz out?

 

[peterhop]

would I be able to run cold water through the Swiss Voile (if I hang it above the open fermenter) to extract the max sugaz out?

This might not be good - if the wort that comes out has an SG of less than 1.010 then this can extract tannins (bitterness) from the grain. Though I'm not sure in the case of cold water. Rinsing like this is called sparging, and usually the water is at around 65 degrees; sparging is what BIAB was meant to avoid.

I just put the bag into an empty pot and squeeze it a bit to get most of the liquid out (though not much comes out), and spoon this back into the wort (without splashing). When I taste the used grains there is very little sugar left (and less than when I sparged).

 

[felten]

I've been reading (and thinking about my technique in the partial grain brews I've done for years) - I often get a sieve above my fermenter and run cold water through the grain in the sieve (keep in mind only about a kilo of grain - it is a partial) - would I be able to run cold water through the Swiss Voile (if I hang it above the open fermenter) to extract the max sugaz out?

There are plenty of people that sparge with their BIAB set ups, usually using a 2nd container and some extra boiling/hot water. I'd give you a run down but its not something I have done myself yet. (planning to next time)

 

[Nodrog]

why do you need to avoid splashing? just 'cos its hot and burny? or?

This might not be good - if the wort that comes out has an SG of less than 1.010 then this can extract tannins (bitterness) from the grain. Though I'm not sure in the case of cold water. Rinsing like this is called sparging, and usually the water is at around 65 degrees; sparging is what BIAB was meant to avoid.

I just put the bag into an empty pot and squeeze it a bit to get most of the liquid out (though not much comes out), and spoon this back into the wort (without splashing). When I taste the used grains there is very little sugar left (and less than when I sparged).

 

[peterhop]

why do you need to avoid splashing? just 'cos its hot and burny? or?

Splashing hot wort will absorb some air into the wort, which is said to oxidise the wort (process called hot side aeration or HSA for short) and cause cardboard flavours. John Palmer's online book has a section on this. I don't think splashing a few cups of wort will do much harm, but avoid it anyway. A lot of my brewing techniques are superstitions.

Hey, you are in Auckland too. No need for brew fridges at the moment. What suburb are you ?

 

[husky]

Can someone with beersmith or alike downsize DSGA to a final batch size of say 9-10L? With a run down of how much water to start with pre boil etc. I have quite large beer reserves atm and was going to start small 10L extract brews however I would really like to give this BIAB a crack.
Also if buying a bag or two of grain, what would be the more common ones that would definalty get used up(25kg bags). Basically a couple of common grains would be a good start.

 

[Nick JD]

Can someone with beersmith or alike downsize DSGA to a final batch size of say 9-10L? With a run down of how much water to start with pre boil etc. I have quite large beer reserves atm and was going to start small 10L extract brews however I would really like to give this BIAB a crack.
Also if buying a bag or two of grain, what would be the more common ones that would definalty get used up(25kg bags). Basically a couple of common grains would be a good start.

I would just buy the brew's ingredients as you need them from one of the site sponsors above (possibly get enough for two batches or something). Get them to crack the grains too, it's free. Treat your first few brews as "experiments" - don't be hard on yourself about getting things perfect first time around, that's not important.

Since the good Doctor's recipe is for a 20L batch, make yours 10L - and half all the ingredients. Easy as. I would forget the sparge this first time around since these small batches don't really gain much from sparging. You'll only have about 2kg of grain in the bag and since you started with 10L of mash water simply lifting the bag out and squeezing it over the pot liberates most of the goodness.

As far as volumes go (assuming you have a 15-19L pot) I would bring roughly 10L of water up to strike temperature, add your bag then grain, and insulate your pot. The important thing here is that volumes are not really that important - the water is only there for the sugaz to go into at this stage.

So when you pull the bag out and squeeze it you'll probably end up with, say 8L of malty goodness because water will be left trapped in the grain. Squeeze it again - get all you can out.

Now you'll find that you have 8L of too strong wort - probably somthing like 1.055 (DSGA is 1.047 OG) - so add about 4 or 5L of water to make it about 13L (yup, make it even weaker you're about to boil a lot of water off) and bring it to the boil ... add your hops (and set your phone's alarm to beep for the next addition etc).

If your boil was too hard-out, and you end up with under 10L ... simply add required boiling water at the end, just before you add your 1/4 whirlfloc tablet. It's better to boil too vigorously and add water later than to boil weakly and aim for 10L.

Above all, don't be too concerned with liquid volumes initially - after doing your first brew all the volume calculations will become crystal clear with your set of gear. Write everything down and don't crack a beer until your wort is cooling!

 

[husky]

Appreciate the reply Nick, can the hops additions be donwgraded in a 1:1 ratio as well? I seem to recall it varying to some degree. I suppose it shouldn't matter too much, as the main point of the exercise is replacing the can on maly with fresh sugar from the grain.
With regards to the whirlflock tablet, what exactly is is and what does it do(I will have a search on the forum now anyways). I have only been doing extracts and never come across this yet.
cheers

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Appreciate the reply Nick, can the hops additions be donwgraded in a 1:1 ratio as well? I seem to recall it varying to some degree. I suppose it shouldn't matter too much, as the main point of the exercise is replacing the can on maly with fresh sugar from the grain.
With regards to the whirlflock tablet, what exactly is is and what does it do(I will have a search on the forum now anyways). I have only been doing extracts and never come across this yet.
cheers

I'd like to know too.

Thanks heaps Nick, I keep learning with every post you make on this forum - especially this thread.

As for programs - I found a free (open-source) program called qbrew. I use it on Ubuntu Linux, but there is a windows and mac variant as well. Free, has some good pre-settings in there and gives you calcs for what the result of your brew will be. Just remember to convert it to metric, it defaults as US readings.

 

[Nick JD]

Appreciate the reply Nick, can the hops additions be donwgraded in a 1:1 ratio as well? I seem to recall it varying to some degree. I suppose it shouldn't matter too much, as the main point of the exercise is replacing the can on maly with fresh sugar from the grain.
With regards to the whirlflock tablet, what exactly is is and what does it do(I will have a search on the forum now anyways). I have only been doing extracts and never come across this yet.
cheers

There probably are issues with scaling down things, but if there are, they're small, I don't think it'll matter too much. Worry about that stuff later when you are entering your beers in competitions.

Whirlfloc is fishguts (I think). It grabs all the proteins in the boil and pulls them together. You can actually see it happening - it's kinda cool. It looks a little like you've cracked an egg carefully over the pot and just dropped the egg-white in. All these big clumps of protein then fall to the bottom (if you cool slowly in the pot) - or, if you are transfering the wort out you grab a big spoon and stir the pot into a big whirlpool. This makes all the heavier gluggy protein clumps go to the middle of the whirl ... whereas the tap is on the side - so the clumps are left behind. The clumps are called "Hot Break" and are not too tasty.

When the wort cools some other clumps come out. They are the "Cold Break". They are not too bad tasting, but not really wanted either if you can help it.

Because I just leave my pot to cool over night, and pour the whole thing into the fermenter like a beer (leaving the sediment (break material) behind) I get to see both the cold break (looks like soft tofu, and probably is) and the hot break (looks like mashed brains or a retarded monkey's attempt at scrambling eggs).

 

[husky]

Thanks for that, Ill grab some whirlflock while at the LHBS picking up some grains. Would extract brews benefit from whirlflock or are the proteins already removed from commercially available extract?

 

[Nashmandu]

Mate I'd edit that back into your post about mashing, if they're using gas they'll be a bit disappointed when the voile catches on fire hahaha.

Good guide so far mate.

Pay attention yoy unruley *******, he actually did tell us too turn the element off..read it again