More wort than expected...

[CapnK]

I'm hoping someone might shed a little light on this mystery from yesterdays brew day.
It was the first time using our copper coil chiller (bought 2nd hand with the urn)

I was aiming for about 18L of 1047 DSGA, and we have about 2-3L of trub loss in the urn.

At flameout I had approx 22L of 1051 (temp adjusted) wort.
See the photo, the urn is 30L and the wort is definitely not near the top of the urn.

After running the chiller for about an hour (from our rainwater tank, and back into the tank) I managed to get about 25L into the fermeter, with an SG of 1044 (temp adjusted).
Puzzled, I had nowhere to store it, so pitched it as normal. (And no time to reboil, re-chill)

I made sure the hose connectors were dripping outside the urn, and did end up with about 1/3rd of a bucket of drips.
I've tested the coil for leaks this morning, but none are apparent.
(Immersed it in the pool, plugged one end and blew air in the other end, no bubbles came out. Tried pumping water through an looking for leaks, couldn't see anything)

I can only think of 3 causes
1) The hose connectors developed a higher pressure leak that 'jetted' water into the urn, but only when I wasn't looking!
2) Someone else in the house added 5L of water
3) It was gifted to us by a Beer God. (Hopefully he hopped it first!)

Any other suggestions?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

It is possible your urn is actually more than 30L.

Have you measured it?
Did you measure then amount of water you added?

 

[431neb]

I've lost 10 litres on brew day before. I was searching for some malfunction but the malfunction was me. I simply got a bit over- refreshed and chatty, thus forgetting 10 l of sparge water. My guess is you mis-measured.

 

[431neb]

The other possibility is that there is a very small hole in your chiller that only opens in the very hot wort when the copper expands.

A pressure test might be interesting.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I over measured sparge water, and I was sober on my American IPA (still carbonating at the moment, even the hot water system isn't getting them done quickly).

Finished with 29L at 1.042 or something, instead of 24L at 1.051.

And SWMBO was sick of the boiling, so I ended up not being able to correct back for the mistake.

Hopefully it's okay, tastes bitter but might mellow out a little.

 

[manticle]

Sounds like a leak from the chiller. Mismeasurement alone wouldn't account for the difference in SG. Also liquid contracts as it cools so the disparity may be greater than 3L.

I know you said you tested the chiller for leaks but try running it in an empty urn for a similar amount of time.
If that gives nothing, try running hot water through it to test 431neb's theory (or chill some hot water with some blue food dyed water through your chiller).

 

[Topher]

Mmmmm unboiled recirculated rain tank water beer.....

I can confirm that there is nowhere near 25 litres in the urn in the photo.
Could there have been a sneaky drip or trickle running unnoticed along the outside underside of the pipe?

......and captaink, if we get 5 bonus litres when you brew then you are in charge of the operation from now on!

 

[Kudzu]

Mmmmm unboiled recirculated rain tank water beer.....

I can confirm that there is nowhere near 25 litres in the urn in the photo.
Could there have been a sneaky drip or trickle running unnoticed along the outside underside of the pipe?

......and captaink, if we get 5 bonus litres when you brew then you are in charge of the operation from now on!

This is my guess. If you're sure the gravity was measured correctly pre and post cooling, then you must have got extra water in there. 5 litres in an hour is only 1.3 ml per second, not a big leak, though should be noticeable.

I've got compression fittings on the end of my chiller and have fitted hose connector nozzles. No leaks.

 

[Florian]

Mmmmm unboiled recirculated rain tank water beer.....

Not as bad as it sounds.

I had a similar thing happen to me (hose blew off chiller and a few litres of tank water ran into the beer) and the keg got emptied at a case swap in no time.

As long as there is enough hops in there...

 

[CapnK]

The small trickle theory sounds feasible and easily fixed.
I'm hoping it's not the small pinhole that expands when heated.
Not sure the better half would be impressed with putting blue dye in her garden water tank just to test some beer gear!

And yes I'm fairly sure of the volumes, as I've marked out 2L increments on the sighting tube.

Beware what you wish for Topher, I know the tank has a length of rebar in there, so this batch might have extra iron.. A genuine rusty colour to the golden ale.

Thanks for the ideas

 

[slcmorro]

Finished with 29L at 1.042 or something, instead of 24L at 1.051.

Hopefully it's okay, tastes bitter but might mellow out a little.

Wouldn't it have *more* bitter, if you had have got it down to 24L as intended anyways?

 

[431neb]

The trickle idea has merit.

I wish I had made the tails on my chiller longer. Not so much that I will actually extend them ... Just wish I was smart enough to have done it in the first place....

 

[CapnK]

I wish I had made the tails on my chiller longer.

Thanks for the tip. 30cm? Longer?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Wouldn't it have *more* bitter, if you had have got it down to 24L as intended anyways?

All cube hopped or 0 min no chill additions, so it would have been more balanced at higher grav OG.

 

[431neb]

Thanks for the tip. 30cm? Longer?

Just out about another 100 mm and down a bit so that if there is a leak it can't enter the BK.

Link to pics here.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/71974-ghetto-immersion-chiller/

 

[TheWiggman]

To me this problem seems pretty simple. Assuming you know how to measure your liquid, when you started chilling the volume increased. Either someone tipped some in when you weren't looking, or additional water has come from your chiller. Jesus turned water into wine, so I don't think God's at play here.

Boil some water in the pot. Do a pretend-chill and watch your water level. If it increases - gap which opens up under heat confirmed. If you're lucky you might be able to pull the chiller out and see where it leaks.

Otherwise, if there is a leak at the hose fitting it wouldn't surprise me if water is running down the pipe and into the boiler. This can often be hard to see and the easiest way to check this is to put your finger under the pipe. If water collects on your digit - bingo.

 

[CapnK]

So it looks like I'll get an FG of about 1.010 on this, but with the extra wort/rainwater it tastes a bit bland and under hopped.

I've got plenty of left over Amarillo, and thinking about a hop tea @ 0.5g/L to add some IBU and dry hop at about 1g/L for aroma. ( in terms of g/L of hops, that would get me back closer to the ratio for a 25L batch)

Suggestions/improvement on that plan?

Side question, how true to taste should a DSGA be during/immediately after the ferment? Or any ale for that matter. I'm crap at describing taste, but this batch doesn't yet come close to a DSGA taste or aroma.

 

[manticle]

All beers change with conditioning and carbonation.

 

[CapnK]

'Morph completely' might be required in this case.
Now I'm tempted to not dry hop/hop tea, and see how much it changes... Not introduce another variable

 

[manticle]

More pressing would be sorting out why it happened and preventing it from recurring.