Mexican Ag Quaffer

[Fourstar]

Rice does add flavour, an organic compound found in rice is also found as a flavour complent of malted barley, it's what give that 'nutty' component.

The difference between using dextrose and rice is the starch in the rice gets converted to MALTOSE (glucose-glucose chain) by the Alpha and Beta Amylase. Where as using dextrose you end up with a glucose-fructose chain, this gets metabolised differently by the yeast resulting in different flavours in your final product and different effects on body and attenuation.

 

[under]

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Adjunct 'R' Us
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer:
Style: Cream Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 27.70 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 15.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 71.42 %
0.95 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 22.62 %
0.25 kg Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.95 %
25.00 gm Liberty [4.50 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 15.2 IBU

 

[under]

The flaked maize can be subbed for instant polenta. And the rice is just rice boiled for conversion then chucked in to the mash.

Single bittering addition. You can use magnum, norther brewer, galena or whatever you got. Bitter to 15-20 IBU.

Ferment with 05 or S189. 2 weeks primary, keg 10 days CC.

This will be better than any corona.

 

[Bribie G]

I have just finished a keg of cream ale made with Rice, Pils malt and used Galena hops, which are the hop used in Corona. Despite the use of US-05 it's come out really 'lagery' - I'd really recommend the Galena, added 20 grams at the beginning of the boil but there's still a heap of hop character.

Edit: it's the one on the right. The one on the left is a Pilsener type lager.
Geniune recycled BribieG photo:

Edit edit: the creamy foamy head, and a lot of the smoooothness, comes from 330g Carapils in the mash.

 

[raven19]

Another thread here that may be of interest also. :icon_cheers:

 

[HoppingMad]

I suppose I'm continuing this thread and/or bumping it.

Rice - what does it impart flavourwise? If nothing, why not dextrose - after all these beers need thinning anyway.

Other question - what about Nottingham (Danstar) Ale Yeast? It seems to have low temp tolerance (even in winter, inside a house in Qld is unlikely to drop below 14 degrees, though I have a cellar that does, if required), highly attenuating (therefore dry, as the style requires) and extremely neutral in terms of flavour imparted.

Just trying to collate a cerveza recipe, to be put down in the next week or two, for storage and summer drinking. :chug:

Think you'll find that most Cerveza (i.e. Corona, Sol, Pacifico) clones use rice, not corn for the most part. Rice/rice syrup adds some mild body without affecting the overall flavour mix as it is very neutral. Dunno about using Corn, and would have thought bucketloads of dex would affect flavour more than adding rice as it has a more noticeable flavour.

In terms of clone recipes written by authors in the US, the ones I've seen in books like 'US Clone Brews' and 'Beer Captured', and mags like BYO mainly use pils, carapils (if you want more body- none if you want thin), galena hops, and rice. Glacier is also sometimes utilised as this hop imparts a citrus/lemony character. The main hop of the commercial Corona beer is Galena as has been mentioned, which gives the beer it's bite, and the majority of these recipes (as well as the commercial examples) utilise a clean lager yeast. This is why folks here are supporting a neutral ale yeast like US-05 for those that can't get lager temps. But alternately you could get a high temp lager-style yeast like California lager (Wyeast 2112) and it will brew between 14-20 degrees and still give you that clean lager characteristic you'll miss with US-05.

An English Ale yeast like Nottingham I think would wind up too fruity and estery for the style - particularly if brewed around 22 degrees, but if a fruity cerveza and not a clean watery one like the original is what you're chasing then go for it - there's no rules in the brewshed!

Hopper.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Think you'll find that most Cerveza (i.e. Corona, Sol, Pacifico) clones use rice, not corn for the most part. Rice/rice syrup adds some mild body without affecting the overall flavour mix as it is very neutral. Dunno about using Corn, and would have thought bucketloads of dex would affect flavour more than adding rice as it has a more noticeable flavour.

In terms of clone recipes written by authors in the US, the ones I've seen in books like 'US Clone Brews' and 'Beer Captured', and mags like BYO mainly use pils, carapils (if you want more body- none if you want thin), galena hops, and rice. Glacier is also sometimes utilised as this hop imparts a citrus/lemony character. The main hop of the commercial Corona beer is Galena as has been mentioned, which gives the beer it's bite, and the majority of these recipes (as well as the commercial examples) utilise a clean lager yeast. This is why folks here are supporting a neutral ale yeast like US-05 for those that can't get lager temps. But alternately you could get a high temp lager-style yeast like California lager (Wyeast 2112) and it will brew between 14-20 degrees and still give you that clean lager characteristic you'll miss with US-05.

An English Ale yeast like Nottingham I think would wind up too fruity and estery for the style - particularly if brewed around 22 degrees, but if a fruity cerveza and not a clean watery one like the original is what you're chasing then go for it - there's no rules in the brewshed!

Hopper.

All the research I've done says that Nottingham is the least fruity of any top fermenting yeast, and has a minimal flavour, comparative to any other non-lager yeast - the closest to getting a lager without one.

At any rate, went with:

4kg Barret Burston Pilsner Malt
1kg Rice
15g Nelson Sauvin Hops at 38m
15g Nelson Sauvin Hops at 15m
15g Saaz at Flameout

So it was kinda like make it light, but fruiter. I can tell you the smell that comes from the fermenter produced by Nelson Sauvin is amazing - definately a hop that gets a repeat run in my brewing, I think. :lol:

 

[HoppingMad]

I should qualify my earlier comments about many beers in the cerveza style using Galena.
After a bit of digging around some published clone recipes (from the Szamatulski Books)
I've discovered that many use Tettnanger (bittering/flavour) & Saaz (flavour/aroma) together or tett straight through.

These include:
Cristal - Cuba
Noche Buena - Mexico
Cerveza Imperial - Costa Rica
Dos Equis- Mexico

Some South American Beers also utilise Hallertau and Styrian Goldings too - but it is striking the number using Tett & Saaz.

Cheers,

Hopper.

 

[Screwtop]

Galena hops, which are the hop used in Corona.

Making Zwickels clone in a week. Are you sure of this Bribie ? It's packaged in clear glass!

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Acasta]

Just a quick question on how to use the rice? Thanks.

 

[Bribie G]

According to Craftbrewer it's the hop of Corona - actually tastes the genuine deal if you force yourself to drink a Corona.

With the rice you just cook it to a runny mush and stir into mash at mash temp. American breweries add it in at boiling temperatures "cooker mash" but it's a bugger to try and calculate the temps at home. I've more or less got it down to adding 8 litres of boiling cooker mash (maize or rice) to a 'normal' BIAB mash of 28 L at 62 degrees but that's taken a year of hit and miss, so best to stick to just adding it at mash temp.

I mash for 90 mins to ensure good conversion.

 

[Screwtop]

To save people searching for Zwickel's Corona Recipe........Here is what I made.

Zwickel's Corona

Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 28.19 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 14.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes


3.00 kg Pilsner Malt
1.00 kg Corn, Flaked
0.50 kg Rice
13.00 gm Horizon 2006 (Age adjusted) [8.30 %] (60 min Hops 14.0 IBU
4000ml Starter Pilsen Lager (Wyeast Labs #2007)


Zwickel's Notes:
------
Mash in the pilsener malt at around 35C, take 12l of water
meanwhile boil the Corn and Rice with ~6l of water for about 15min.
add the boiling pulp into the mash, so youll achieve around 65 to 68C
keep it at this temp for around 2 hours, yeah it will need that long time to convert all the starch.
Stir well all the time. After 2 hours heat it up to 78C and mashout


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't think it would work on my system so this is how I did it.

Mash
Boil Rice and Corn in 7.00 L of water for 20 min
10 min Mash In 52.0 C Add 12.00 L of water at 58.0 C
Add boiling cereal to mash tun
120 min Sacch Rest 66.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 77.0 C

2 Hour mash, all worked well hit temps and targets, 84% efficiency and tastes well.... similar to a Corona........yippee! Brewed it for a neighbour.

 

[rendo]

Holy crap BG, you dont want to knock over that poor laptop onto your beer!!!

US-05....I still havent brewed with it yet. Done a kinda fake lager with 514 and it was NICE. I am using WLP830 at the moment, but either my next brew or the one after will be a US-05 fake lager of some sort.

rendo

or a small cold room, then I'll experiment with the finest Bohemian Pilseners, but till then I come back to US-05 again and again. :icon_cheers:
View attachment 31904

 

[Nick JD]

Another way with rice is to cook it the day before (or weeks before and freeze it), let it come to room temperature and weigh it (cooked weight). Then if you have say 4kg of grain, and 2kg of rice then calculate your strike temperature for 6kg of room temperature stuff.

So many ways to skin a kitten!

 

[Screwtop]

Another way with rice is to cook it the day before (or weeks before and freeze it), let it come to room temperature and weigh it (cooked weight). Then if you have say 4kg of grain, and 2kg of rice then calculate your strike temperature for 6kg of room temperature stuff.

So many ways to skin a kitten!

The weight of cooked rice includes water, you would need adjust the gravity contribution to allow for this.

Screwy

 

[Nick JD]

The weight of cooked rice includes water, you would need adjust the gravity contribution to allow for this.

Screwy

I find that my strike temp gives me my desired mash temp this way.

Can you explain to us what you mean by including gravity in the calculations?

 

[Bribie G]

In the case of BIAB you would not need to worry about any gravity calcs as long as the level of the final goods in the urn or pot or whatever you use - after draining and before the boil - is the 'standard' level you normally aim for.

Edit: the laptop went to God some time ago

 

[Nick JD]

In the case of BIAB you would not need to worry about any gravity calcs as long as the level of the final goods in the urn or pot or whatever you use - after draining and before the boil - is the 'standard' level you normally aim for.

Ah ha. It's about volumes. :icon_cheers:

 

[aussiechucka]

Looks like I will be trying the rcipe soon as SWMBO is back drinking again and is wondering why so many dark beers. :huh:
After I my second AG in the fermenter will be planning this one for her.
Cheers All for the info as SWMBO is Mexican and so are her friends so I will have some harsh critics to test it out.
Chucka

 

[aussiechucka]

Looks like I will be trying the rcipe soon as SWMBO is back drinking again and is wondering why so many dark beers. :huh:
After I my second AG in the fermenter will be planning this one for her.
Cheers All for the info as SWMBO is Mexican and so are her friends so I will have some harsh critics to test it out.
Chucka

Well now I have come up with a recipe that I am sure she will like it is very similar to the above but I am using Centennial as my bittering hops for 60 min

Looking at a

Recipe: Cerveza de Alita
Brewer: Aussiechucka
Asst Brewer:
Style: Cream Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 30.54 L
Estimated OG: 1.037 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Pilsner Pale Malt (4.0 EBC) Grain 75.00 %
1.00 kg Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 25.00 %
17.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.3 IBU
1 Pkgs US - 05

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 12.00 L of water at 70.4 C 65.0 C
10 min Mash Out Add 5.84 L of water at 100.0 C 75.6 C


I am looking at adding this rice as precooked and straight into the mash. So hopefully all goes well for my third BIAB. This one has to be good becaus eit will be tested on a lot of Mexicans.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Cheers
Chucka