Matho's controller

[Cavemanbrew]

Hey guys,

I am looking to have some PCB boards manufactured at http://www.seeedstudio.com/service/index.php?r=pcb using the Gerber files Matho provided earlier in the thread (thank you!).

I am a newbie when it comes to ordering PCB's, so I was wondering if anyone could help me out with the PCB options offered through the seeedstudio fusion service. Particularly, what PCB size should I order for compatibility with the arduino unit? (I presume the Gerber files do not specify the physical size of the PCB?)

Cheers!

OSH Park ~ Welcome
https://oshpark.com/
This is a community printed circuit board (PCB) order. We take designs from lots of people, put them all together on a panel and then order the panel from a fab.

I've had several diffrent boards made, very nice outcome

 

[Edak]

I can vouch that osh park is really good quality and it doesn't take to long either.

 

[MastersBrewery]

For those considering a run of these boards in the comming weeks, it may be prudent to wait to see when/ if Lael will be releasing the file for his updated version of the board. As most of you know Lael has put a lot of his own time and effort into supplying the current version 2 of this board. He has over the last few months worked very hard to make some design changes to make it even better and easier/ more compatible. I am unsure if he'll call it Version 3 but it is an upgrade, and as I understand it about to undergo rigorous testing and maybe further development.The latest updates are here
I have to say it's great to see people willing to put in the effort to advance what started as a great project and has now gone world wide, a fantastic salute to matho's original work.

 

[jwollmer]

I finally completed my build and have installed the ArdBir program. All is working well with the exception of the boil phase in atuo mode. In manual mode I ge a strong boil and reach a max temp of 209.8F. In auto mode if I set the boil temp to 210F it never reaches it so the boil timer does not start.Max temp again is 209.8F. If I set the boil temp to 209F the PID will cycle from 208.2, 208.4, 208.8, and back to 208.2. and 209 is never reached so boil timer doesn´t start.

I would appreciate any help.

Thanks

 

[djar007]

Have you had a play with the pid settings. Maybe try ramping it a little harder to get it over the line. And then adjust back.

Edit:you can set it low and get the timer started and use the arrow up button to raise temp high so the element is on full power. Sometimes on a colder day I set to 105c so I get a good strong boil and the controller doesn't try to pulse on and off . I start my boil at 100c and that works for me at my altitude etc.

 

[MaxN68]

If your temperature is ever under the setpoint, you can try to increase the kI value on PID.

 

[jwollmer]

I have to admit the PID tuning is still a mystery to me. Is there a guideline other than what is in the manual or a tutorial people have found useful.

Another thing I noticed is you can only set the PUMP STOP to your BOILING point setting not above. So even though I have DURING BOIL set ON as soon as that BOILING point is met you will be at PUMP STOP temp and the pump will shut off. I have a chugger that can go above boil temp, and would like to circulate once and a while to make sure wort in pump is boiled. I have not had a chance to get into the boil phase due to reasons above, so maybe the DURING BOIL setting over rides the PUMP STOP but I think that would defeat the purpose. I would have expected to be able to set the PUMP STOP above the BOILING point. Am I miss understanding something?

Thanks and I cant wait for my first brew next weekend!

 

[claudiobr74]

Have you had a play with the pid settings. Maybe try ramping it a little harder to get it over the line. And then adjust back.
Edit:you can set it low and get the timer started and use the arrow up button to raise temp high so the element is on full power. Sometimes on a colder day I set to 105c so I get a good strong boil and the controller doesn't try to pulse on and off . I start my boil at 100c and that works for me at my altitude etc.

I have the same problem with the temperature and timer start. The problem is: when the timer starts, I can only raise the PMW not the temperature. Do you know what is wrong?

 

[djar007]

It is late. I am about to board a plane . lots of hours on the Qantas Club. But here goes.
Max is the guy when it comes to advice on getting it working. If he suggests playing with the I part of the pid then try that. The pump in the braumeiser application is usually used to pump the wort through the grain through the mash cycle. Most remove the mash cylinder after mash out and sparging is completed . so the pump is not needed.AA good rolling boil will stir the liquid enough to mix it and provide an even temp. But back to the pid. Google pid and what it does. And read Mathos explanation of it. Then look at maxs changes and recommendations. Neither of which I can find or link to right now. But it's where the problem lies.

Edit : Mathos explanation in the original guide.Notes on setting the PID the PID output range from 0 to 100, zero being off and 100 being on all the time. The P part of the PID stands for proportional which means it affects the output proportional to the error between the setpoint and actual temperature. So if the Kp gain is 50 the p output will be 100 until the error drops below 2 then it will drop down to 0 when there in no error, with P output only there will always be a small error and it will never get to the setpoint unless the gain is set so high that it produces over shoot. The I part of the PID stands for integral, it is used to remove a constant error that is present with P output, the problem with I is it can wind up and cause over shoot. The D part of the PID stands for derivative, it is used to hold back the I if there is a great rate of change, with such slow rate of change when heating water the D doesn't do very much. The units PID has a sample time of 5 second which means that every 5 seconds the PID is fed the error and does its calculations. The unit also has its output set to on if the temperature error is greater than 5 deg if the error is less the PID is turned on and takes over the control of the output. Suggested settings for a volume of 23l with a 2400w heating element Kp = 50 Ki = 1 Kd = 10 if you get overshoot try and reduce the Kp a bit and increase Kd, if you get a constant error below the setpoint or the ramp to the setpoint is very slow increase Ki a little bit too much Ki will cause over shoot.

 

[djar007]

The first menu section is related to PID parameter tuning. Through this menu the relevant constant that influences the PID controlling algorithm and so the heating element control is set. It is also possible to configure output power of the heating element during the boil phase and temperature probe calibration. The details: Constant P Constant I Constant D Window ms PWM % Calibration-100 100-100 100-100 100 1000-7500 0-100-5,00° 5,00° UP Proportional part of the PID control algorithm. Integral part of the PID control algorithm. Derivative part of the PID control algorithm. PID control time window in millisecond. Heating power percentage applied to heating element during boil. Temperature probe offset calibration (0,10° step) parameter increase DOWN START ENTER parameter decrease----Confirm selection UP+DOWNExit from PID menu Note: that fine tuning of the PID parameter is out of the scope of this user manual and many factors related to the brewing system can influence the optimal setting. For a more detailed explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller of PID control algorithm please refer to Wikipedia A simple method to get an easy calibration of the PID algorithm suggests to set to 0 the value Ki and Kd and try to fine tune only the Kp that allows the PID to get as close as possible to set point trying to minimize the difference between actual temperature and set point. Subsequently it is possible to tune the kI and kD considering that: •In case the measured temperature overshot the set point reduce Kp and Increase kD •In case to much time is needed to get the controller to the set point increase kI •In case of a permanent error below the set point increase kI

Wdit: this is from the ardbir manual. Best I can do on my phone. Boarding now.

 

[MaxN68]

I'm working on an upgrade of ArdBir.

We added some parameters in the system for greater customization without having to use a computer.
We are finishing the testing phase on the Italian version (16x2 and 20x4).

As soon as we finished testing the full functionality of the new parameters will provide the release of various localizations linguistic trusting your help to correct errors graphics and translation.

PID MENU
- Added Heat GAS(PWM) / Electric (PID + PWM)
- Added Control hysteresis for GAS use

UNIT MENU
- Added Control for Pump ON-OFF before the MashIn
- Added Control Pause Add Pipe
- Added Control Pause Remove Pipe
- Added Control Pause Iodine Test


On the Sketch we have this NEW setting system:


// ==============================================
// ATTENTION!!!!!
// YOU MUST SET ONLY THIS SECTION
// ==============================================

//SET PCB
// 1 Brauduino Original (Matho's PCB)
// 2 Brauduino by DanielXan
// 3 ArdBir by DanielXan
#define PCBType 3

// SET LCD and Language
// LCD 16 or 20
#define LCDType 20

// LANGUAGE
// 1 English
// 2 Italian
// 3 Spanish
// 4 Portuguese
#define LCDLanguage 2

// ==============================================
// END OF SETTING SECTION
// ==============================================

With the next update will make possible the setting free of the maximum temperature of the pump, making it free from the temperature of boil

 

[MaxN68]

I have the same problem with the temperature and timer start. The problem is: when the timer starts, I can only raise the PMW not the temperature. Do you know what is wrong?

You can vary the temperature of boiling BEFORE you reach a state of boil AFTER act on the PWM just to maintain that state.
This is because once you reach the state of BOIL we only keep it in a more or less vigorous

If you set a high PWM, you'll see that the temperature will go beyond that set for the beginning of the boil.
If the PWM is too low, the temperature will drop below the established and then the PID will return to being active


While you have the PID active you can always change the temperature set point

 

[jwollmer]

Thanks for the responses, I am traveling so will give it a try this weekend.

 

[claudiobr74]

Hi Max,

Do you believe that would be to hard to adapt or create a firmware to use a Lcd TFT of 3.2"?

Cheers

 

[claudiobr74]

I'm working on an upgrade of ArdBir.

We added some parameters in the system for greater customization without having to use a computer.
We are finishing the testing phase on the Italian version (16x2 and 20x4).

As soon as we finished testing the full functionality of the new parameters will provide the release of various localizations linguistic trusting your help to correct errors graphics and translation.

PID MENU
- Added Heat GAS(PWM) / Electric (PID + PWM)
- Added Control hysteresis for GAS use

UNIT MENU
- Added Control for Pump ON-OFF before the MashIn
- Added Control Pause Add Pipe
- Added Control Pause Remove Pipe
- Added Control Pause Iodine Test


On the Sketch we have this NEW setting system:

// ==============================================
// ATTENTION!!!!!
// YOU MUST SET ONLY THIS SECTION
// ==============================================

//SET PCB
// 1 Brauduino Original (Matho's PCB)
// 2 Brauduino by DanielXan
// 3 ArdBir by DanielXan
#define PCBType 3

// SET LCD and Language
// LCD 16 or 20
#define LCDType 20

// LANGUAGE
// 1 English
// 2 Italian
// 3 Spanish
// 4 Portuguese
#define LCDLanguage 2

// ==============================================
// END OF SETTING SECTION
// ==============================================

With the next update will make possible the setting free of the maximum temperature of the pump, making it free from the temperature of boil

I'm ready to translate to portuguese!

 

[lael]

Max, the new kit I'm putting together uses a MEGA, so will have a bunch of space available - so feel free to go nuts in the next version.

Might be worth doing a feature freeze on the UNO version and moving development across to the MEGA so the space restrictions aren't an issue anymore.

 

[Robbo2234]

Just a suggestion any chance of getting a hop dropping thing added I have hardly any time to brew these days and desperate for some all grain!

 

[xredwood]

I am building a new controller box so I have room to switch my grain mill, whirlpool pump, etc on and since I had some spare ssrs I want to run my pump for my brau clone through an ssr partly to stop my screen scrambling issue (it's a 240v pump).

How do I wire it? My plan was to attach the negative from my 12V power supply directly to the ssr then switch the positive through the pcb as you would for a 12v pump to the other terminal of the ssr. Is this the best way to do it?

 

[MastersBrewery]

xredwood, thats sort of how I did it, works for me mate.

 

[lael]

The SSR is essentially a switch, just like the relay on the board. Just re-read your post. Yes, sounds right. Only switch one side of the 12v through on board relay, and then same for ssr for 240v pump.