Mashmaster Mill Design

[enoch]

Brissy - any update on price and availabilty. Is it pitched higher than the barley crusher and crankenstein or will it be in the same $ range?

Decision time is upon me so is it worth waiting otherwise I will be going a crankenstein 3 roller in the next week or two?

 

[JasonY]

Looks like a nice mill, I imagine it will be quite reasonably priced along with the rest of Bizzy's stuff. Worst case it has to be priced competitively against other mills or good ol competition will kill ya.

Great to see a local option, if I wasn't a non-local at the moment I would probably have waited but being where I am I gave in to the Crankandstein option.

 

[Andyd]

Bump?

 

[enoch]

Gave up waiting - now the proud owner of a Crankandstein 3D. I'm sure it will be a nice looking mill though.

 

[Andyd]

Gave up waiting - now the proud owner of a Crankandstein 3D. I'm sure it will be a nice looking mill though.

So what did Cranky set you back?

Andy

 

[enoch]

So what did Cranky set you back?Andy

$299.95 - it was supposed to be a 3E but turned out to be a 3D (the one with detents on the adjustment) which should have been about $50 more - couldn't resist. May be cheaper to get direct from US but it was a bit of an impulse buy.

 

[Andyd]

Ok. So what is the difference between the 3 roller Crankandstein mills, and the 2 roler style ala Mashmaster? I read the cranky blurb that talks about the first rollers softening the grain, and then the finer closing of the third roller opening the grain up, but how much of that is hype? Has anyone used both and measured relative efficiencies?

Andy

 

[user 384]

Gave up waiting - now the proud owner of a Crankandstein 3D.

A brewing mate did exactly the same today. he couldn't be bothered waiting any longer so bought a 3 roller CrankandStein. IHe said it will be about AUS$260 delivered from the States.

Cheers
MAH

 

[T.D.]

Ok. So what is the difference between the 3 roller Crankandstein mills, and the 2 roler style ala Mashmaster? I read the cranky blurb that talks about the first rollers softening the grain, and then the finer closing of the third roller opening the grain up, but how much of that is hype? Has anyone used both and measured relative efficiencies?

Andy

I don't own a Crankandstein but I don't think its hype. The best results I have gotten from my Barley Crusher has been by crushing once on a fairly open setting and then putting it through again with a tighter setting. So basically replicating the 3 roller system of Crankandstein. I've been having a few dramas with my Barley Crusher recently though, and am very tempted to go a Crankanstein now that the AUD is nice and high. For pretty much the same money as I paid for the BC a couple of years back I could get a schmick top of the line Crankandstein.

 

[Schooie]

Ok. So what is the difference between the 3 roller Crankandstein mills, and the 2 roler style ala Mashmaster? I read the cranky blurb that talks about the first rollers softening the grain, and then the finer closing of the third roller opening the grain up, but how much of that is hype? Has anyone used both and measured relative efficiencies?

Andy

The idea of 3 roller mills is that you get a consistent crush without ripping up your husk too much - the more intact it is the better it is for filtering the mash.



From the Crankandstein site:

Q. How does the 3-roller work? What is the advantage?
A. The 3-roller mill has several advantages and few disadvantages. It has greater output than a 2-roller model running at the same RPM. It provides less husk damage, which aids in sparging. Also, the 3-roller mill more fully separates the starch from the husk, while providing superior grain feed, even with wheat. The 3-roller mill's only disadvantages are the additional power requirements to drive it, and the tendency for brewhouse efficiency to be higher than initially expected.

The 3-roller works by pre-crushing the grain in the preliminary gap between the top two rollers, then opening the husk to expose the crushed kernel in the secondary gap with the third roller. The top gap is fixed at .075" which easily pulls in both wheat and barley, softening the starch without tearing up the husk. There are gaps on either side of the third roller between it and the top rollers. The one closest to the driven roller is considered the front of the mill, where most of the grain will be discharged during milling. As the grain is pressed between the two main rollers, it covers the bottom third roller. The drive roller forces the grain out the front gap, separating the starch from the husk. The grain headed for the tighter rear gap merely drops onto the bottom roller, which delivers it to the front gap. While milling, very little grain will be expelled on the rear side of the mill. It is important to plan for this when designing your base/hopper.

 

[enoch]

I did the first trial run with mine last night with a few handfulls of pils. After a bit of messing around with my drill and BA mounting (to be redone on the WE) it ripped though it leaving pretty much whole husks, chunks and a bit of flour. A surprisingly "fluffy" grist which I took to be the result of the whole husks versus the more broken up ones from the LHBS's mill.

When crankandstein has a slightly less frankenstein mounting I will post some pics.

 

[tangent]

from what i've seen you need to run the drill at a slow speed so you don't flour it too much.
this makes smoke come out of drills

 

[T.D.]

from what i've seen you need to run the drill at a slow speed so you don't flour it too much.
this makes smoke come out of drills

:lol: I got my drill to smoke it up just recently - was a grist with lots of wheat in it. The smoke was really coming out thick and fast. I thought that was the end of the trusty XU1, but she's been going strong since then without any trouble!

 

[PostModern]

looks freakin sweet!

Is that picture mirrored or does the mill require an anti-clockwise crank?

 

[enoch]

from what i've seen you need to run the drill at a slow speed so you don't flour it too much.
this makes smoke come out of drills

John

I think opening up the gap a bit more will help too. Initially smoked big time when I used pearl barley for a test - it is too hard for this as it jams in the thid roller.

Might be be time for Ithat 'll show you mine if you show me your's session.

Bill

 

[Jye]

Is that picture mirrored or does the mill require an anti-clockwise crank?

Just flip it over if its a problem.

 

[BrissyBrew]

Is that picture mirrored or does the mill require an anti-clockwise crank?

I just placed it upside down for the pic, being symmetrical I probably did not think of it at the time, flip it over and the crank does turns clockwise.

The mills are on order and are about 60 days off (allowing for production and shipping time).
I did consider the three roller mill design early in the design phase, but the benefits can be easily achieved by feeding grain through the rollers twice at different settings. Think of a 6 roller commercial mill, they get 3 passes, however not everything goes through the rollers 3 times, grist be can screened off after each roller pass, the more times you run the husk through rollers the greater husk damage.

To reduce husk damage I looked at making the rollers smooth as possible, this requires a larger diameter roller to gain the necessary pinch. Smaller rollers get around this by ripping the husks through the roller with rough pointy knurled surfaces. Originally I was looking at o-ring drives but could not achieve a durable solution, simply they don’t last. The geared rollers will suck in grain at most settings with no knurl at all, however at the tightest setting (good if you want to bake a malty cake, or have great launtering equipment) the knurl was necessary to provide the required friction to suck the grain into the rollers. However due to the large roller diameter the knurl on the rollers could be made quiet fine. In addition the rollers are machined a second time after the knurling process to knock off tips of the diamond shaped heads, to increase the durability of the roller and to further reduce damage to the husks. My goal in designing the millmaster was not to make a cheap rip off of what is ready on the market. The mill has been designed to be a the next set up, suitable smaller micro breweries, home brew shops, and serious brewers. The only thing on the market that has a similar size rollers is the barley crusher’s micro brew mill and a 6 roller german made mill I came across.

Anybody in the Brisbane area that has a C&S or barley crusher that has not been boxed in to the extent that you cant see the mill anymore so I can take a couple pics for comparision.

cheers
frank

 

[Wrenny]

How much?

 

[Cortez The Killer]

That's the question on everyone's lips

 

[Maple]

That's the question on everyone's lips

and in quite a few posts...we're keen brissy, let us know....cost+overhead+margin...simple, no?