Mashmaster Mill Design

[BrissyBrew]

I have been busy with the design of the mashmaster mill. I am currently deciding on the best material to manufacturer the rollers from. I am dedicated to producing the best possible mill I can for a reasonable price.

Pros & Cons
Mild Steel: commonly used roller material, lower cost, however rollers may rust
Aluminum: rust free, lighter for shipping means the final cost delivered is less.
304 SS: rust free, however costs more.

All input is welcome.

 

[Stoodoo]

I have already bought myself a mill, and when I was looking around for them I was after a straight out of the box mill - Something that I didn't have to build extra's from scratch for ie hopper, base etc. Though when I received my mill I realised that there was not much involved in the base. I'd definitely want the hopper option, perhaps in kit form for both ease of packaging (and saving money) and something that could be quickly screwed together or rivetted together by the end user. The non rusting aluminium option sounds good but would the aluminium rollers be as durable as steel? If so, then depending on the overall cost, I think that would be a great unique selling point that no other grain mill manufacturers offer(I stand to be corrected on this though). Of course, stainless rollers are the best option, but I wouldn't think you'd sell too many depending on final price, maybe a "special order option". Finally adjustability of the roller gap is something which I believe needs to be offered. I know that people probably don't go changing around their gap setting often, I have played around with my gap setting and after several adjustments have left it on MY prefered setting. I found that I was able to get slightly better efficiency than what the factory setting gave. Different grains may need different gap settings, though I am not that anal about it - some people may be h34r: .

Good luck with your mill, I can't wait to see what's offered (I may have purchased mine too early).

Cheers

 

[dicko]

I have been busy with the design of the mashmaster mill. I am currently deciding on the best material to manufacturer the rollers from. I am dedicated to producing the best possible mill I can for a reasonable price.

Pros & Cons
Mild Steel: commonly used roller material, lower cost, however rollers may rust
Aluminium: rust free, lighter for shipping means the final cost delivered is less.
304 SS: rust free, however costs more.

All input is welcome.

Hi Brissy,
Good to see someone making these in Aus at a commercial level.
I think cost or value for money is the most important criteria with the purchase of a mill and therefore I would go the carbon steel rollers.
Yes there will be an argument re rust but I have got a Crankenstein 3D with steel rollers that is coming up for two years old and there is no sign of rust on the rollers. I did consider S/Steel for mine but could not really justify the extra cost.
I blow mine off with compressed air about once every three months to remove the dust.
You may consider offering S/Steel or Aluminium as a more expensive option.
Good luck with your new project.

Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Frank SS tubing is a good option for use as rollers, much cheaper and lighter (ends plugged and axle through the middle). I'm in the market and looking at a Crank ATM.

 

[Bobby]

have you thought of using rubber? you can get rubber that is bloody hard and certainly hard enough for this use. i was thinking of using rubber for my mill.

 

[BrissyBrew]

Just fishing for the right roller materials at present, I have the other design factors down pat, but more of that closer to release date.

stoodoo... The non rusting aluminum option sounds good but would the aluminium rollers be as durable as steel?
Obviously not as durable as steel, but milling malt presents should present no problems. I am planning on using an aircraft grade aluminum.

 

[Weizguy]

Characteristics that I would look for would be:

1. Performance. U don't want a tool that doesn't do the job well.
2. Longevity. No point having a tool that works well for a few months only
3. Price/ Value. Everyone likes cheap stuff, but not if it won't last

Brewers have to expect to pay for a good product, or they will soon regret cutting corners.
It may be hard to sort out the tight@rse element on the forum, though. And some people need to take a hard look at themselves, coz they may not realise that are cheapskates. U don't get nuthin' 4 nuthin'!!!

BTW, can Admin correct the spelling of "aluminium" in the poll, for goodness sake. Was discussing this spelling issue with Keith (the bier guy/Chemist) yesterday, and didn't imagine that I'd be back on the soapbox so soon.

My 2 cents
Seth

 

[fixa]

Brewers have to expect to pay for a good product, or they will soon regret cutting corners.
It may be hard to sort out the tight@rse element on the forum, though. And some people need to take a hard look at themselves, coz they may not realise that are cheapskates. U don't get nuthin' 4 nuthin'!!!

BTW, can Admin correct the spelling of "aluminium" in the poll, for goodness sake. Was discussing this spelling issue with Keith (the bier guy/Chemist) yesterday, and didn't imagine that I'd be back on the soapbox so soon.

Dude.. relax. Have a beer.. It's not worth bursting a blood vessel over.

 

[berazafi]

Just fishing for the right roller materials at present, I have the other design factors down pat, but more of that closer to release date.

stoodoo... The non rusting aluminium option sounds good but would the aluminium rollers be as durable as steel?
Obviously not as durable as steel, but milling malt presents should present no problems. I am planning on using an aircraft grade aluminum.

I built my own mill with aluminum rollers, in 15 brews they have gone blunt (the knurling has gone flat), im about to change them to steel

Steel or SS is the way, or maybe anodised alloy

 

[goatherder]

I plan to purchase a mill in the next 6 months so this is one topic I'm keeping my eye on.

I want 2 steel rollers, a hopper and an adjustable gap. Stainless is my preferred option but only if the premium is reasonable. I would consider 30%-50% on top of the delivered price as reasonable. I don't care about design, body materials, knurling and all that, as long as it has been demonstrated that the product works.

If I was buying today I'd get the barley crusher. I'm going to wait and see if the mashmaster is better value.


edit: grammer

 

[Aaron]

I have a Barley Crusher that I got second hand and have had for over a year now. I believe it was probably in service for a couple of years before that. It has steel rollers and is still doing a great job. I think stainless is probably overkill for this. It is nice to have all stainless but I don't think the premium would be worth it on a mill. If it is well looked after it won't have any problems.

 

[Shunty]

Thought about brass for the rollers? 1/4 inch wall brass tube will take a fairly deep knurl, is tougher than aluminium, and won't rust

 

[poppa joe]

A nyone know if a Corn Crusher is any good for grain ....
Went to gets some parts for my '37 Ford..Fella near me cleaning out his shed.....
Was loading up for swap meet at Quenbeane..Had a big Big mill thing with a handle..Said it was a corn crusher..About 800mm high ....
ANYONE???????????
PJ

If a Barley crusher is one of those Porket type thingys ...I have one $50.00 + Postage Weighs about 8 kgs...

 

[poppa joe]

BRISSY..
Hard rubber could be an option??????????
I have an old Wringer..Hard Rubber..seems to work OK..Hard to file down(its got a little bow in it)
Grains do tend to stick on rubber..but seem to clean easy...(I dont do any large amounts of grain yet..
But first try was promising..
See DIY GRAIN MILL post....
PJ

 

[big d]

Something worth considering when you choose between either steel or s/s rollers is your location.Dicko lives in a relatively dry arid zone whereas i live in the tropics and at about this time of the year the air starts to get rather wet ie humid so plain ol steel starts to oxidise/rust.Worth a thought or two when decideing between s/s or steel.

Cheers
Big D

 

[Chris]

Being a boilermaker I thought I would jump in with my 2c.

All materials are intended for different applications
S/S is just that, stain -less, not stain -free and is intended to be used in a volatile or food environment. When the content of chrome exceeds 11% it forms a protective layer of chromic oxide on the steel surface, if this is damaged the steel will corrode.
Aircraft grade Aluminium, good weight to strength ratio, not anywhere near as hard as steel.
Regular Steel, cheap, hard, strong, tough, relatively resistant to corrosion.

Personally I would go for plain steel but I can understand if people want/need stainless. Like with all machinery Im most interested in the wearing parts like the bearings at the shaft ends. Its no good having s/s rollers if theyre running in plastic.

Im looking foward to another excellent product from brissy brew

Cheers

 

[BrissyBrew]

BTW, can Admin correct the spelling of "aluminium" in the poll, for goodness sake. Was discussing this spelling issue with Keith (the bier guy/Chemist) yesterday, and didn't imagine that I'd be back on the soapbox so soon.
Seth

I noticed the typo after I posted, but because the text is in the poll I can't edit it. Although debate does rage about the spelling, straight from wikipedia

In Great Britain and other countries using British spelling, only "aluminium" is used. In the United States, the spelling aluminium is largely unknown, and the spelling aluminum predominates.[11][12] The Canadian Oxford Dictionary prefers aluminum.

In other English-speaking countries, the spellings (and associated pronunciations) aluminium and aluminum are both in common use in scientific and nonscientific contexts. The spelling in virtually all other languages is analogous to the -ium ending.

The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both, but places aluminium first[13]. IUPAC officially prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although several IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum.[1

 

[BrissyBrew]

I built my own mill with aluminum rollers, in 15 brews they have gone blunt (the knurling has gone flat), im about to change them to steel

Steel or SS is the way, or maybe anodised alloy

What grade of aluminum did you use? I am thinking about at 6061-T6. I am also considering hard anodizing.

Hard anodizing is more commonly found in industrial or commercial applications than in consumer products. Some aluminum cookware may be processed through hard anodizing, but regular anodizing generally produces the durable non-stick coating preferred by consumers. Hard anodizing produces a much thicker coating of aluminum oxide, penetrating holes and fissures in the surface to create a more uniform appearance than regular anodized aluminum. Aluminum sheets processed by hard anodizing may have a dark brown or black surface, but other colors can be created.

The benefits of hard anodizing aluminum instead of using stainless steel are lower overall cost and weight. Machining hard anodized aluminum is easier than penetrating a similar block of stainless steel. Hard anodizing also yields a product resistant to harsh weather, salt sprays and abrasive machining processes. Aluminum processed by hard anodizing can be only a few points away from the hardness of diamonds.

Whilst I am on coatings and treatments I note that Browndog has nickel plated rollers. So maybe nickel plated carbon steel rollers might fix the rust issue at a lower cost than stainless. Still a bugger to ship though.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

I am in the market now for a mill. I want S/S because like big D I live in the tropics and hell corosion starts on anything 2 minutes after putting it down...
My tool box is upstairs in the house , I open each draw and spray CRC in there every couple of weeks and still my spanners get rust and corosion on them.
I think I will go the Crank&stein with S/S and 1/2 shaft...
Sorry Briz but it time now...

:beer:

 

[Stagger]

I have made a number of mills for brewers here in Canberra, also I am a engineer so I think I can help.

Firstly forget Aluminium the rollers they simply will not last, mild steel would be a good option however could rust and wear unless heat treated. S/S is by far the best option as it will give you long life ( mine are 21/2 years and sill like the day I made them) and care free. There is however a number of materials that will do the job for a while and yes cheaper but getting them re-machined will quickly add up.
The mills that I made had two 50mm S/S straight knurled rollers 200mm long, running on roller bearings with aluminium slides for adjustments. I stoped making them as every body tried to get them cheaper, I charged $300 for the lot witch took me 21/2 days to make plus materials. I wasnt trying to make money out of them just to help others but as we know most home brewers like the cheep option.

I guess what I am trying to say is this is an important piece of kit, do it right the first time, spend the money that will give you more bang for your buck. If I was to make them to sell I would be doing them out of Mild steel as they will give good life for the money and wont cost the earth to replace, I know a number of people that have been using mild steel for years with little to no wear.


Stagger