Mashing Raw Wheat?

[Tony]

I have a wit planned for tommorrow and on opening my wheat that i had in my head as torrified wheat, it turned out to be raw wheat.

Im after any ideas on the best way to mash with raw wheat!

recipe is:

5kg Pils
5kg raw wheat
0.8kg quick oats

Im thinking a very thick (1.5l/kg) acid rest at 35 for an hour or so then infuse up to 52 for 20 min then infuse up to 65 mash temp.

any thoughts ?

cheers

 

[amiddler]

And I thought if anyone would know it would be you Tony, seems odd that you are asking the question.

Absolutly :icon_offtopic: of how to mash raw wheat, but what diferences would you expect from torrified to raw wheat?
Looking at some pics from Craftbrewer is torrified wheat like rolled oats? It's gone through a steaming and rolling process?

Sorry for jacking your thread so early in the post count.

Drew

 

[gregs]

Im also interested in this, I could be wrong but I believe it can add to the tartness in a wheat beer. And it is the tartness Im after, as I dont like any banana flavour in wheat beer.

Interested to hear replies.

 

[devo]

Add plenty of rice hulls to the grist to prevent it getting stuck during run off/sparge and a a liquor to grist ratio of around 3.4. My experience with raw wheat is that depending on how course or fine it is milled it can have a consistency like mud. You may also aim for a slower run off time, possibly 2 to 3 time longer than you'd expect from your normal barely based run off.

 

[Tony]

DB...... ive never used raw wheat....... ive never made a Wit. I recon i can use a bit of experience and a bit of luck and get the beer made but i thought i would see if any out there have experience using the stuff that may help myself..... and others here. I dont always post for myself but sometimes to get a bit of good discussion going and make information available to all on the forum that otherwise would have stayed in the minds of brewers who know.

gregs.... Raw wheat is just that.... unprocessed strait from the field. The bag actually had a lot of bits of inch long stalk with several wheat grains attached. Thats what made me search out what i had actually purchased. I thought i got Torrified wheat, i must have been half cut when i ordered to think that cause i got the stuff i really needed..... raw wheat.... which is great, but the delema.

Torrified wheat has been steamed to pre gelatinise it si it can be simply single infusion mashed, but a raw umprocessed grain may need some prior treatment in the mash tun to get the most from it.

Im interestd to know if anyone knows what is the best way to get the best efficiency and also the best flavour from the wheat without destroying head retention or the tart fluffy character i want from the grain.

cheers

 

[Tony]

Add plenty of rice hulls to the grist to prevent it getting stuck during run off/sparge and a a liquor to grist ratio of around 3.4. My experience with raw wheat is that depending on how course or fine it is milled it can have a consistency like mud. You may also aim for a slower run off time, possibly 2 to 3 time longer than you'd expect from your normal barely based run off.

Mmmm i kind of fighred it may be like that........ i have added 8 liters volume rice gulls to the mash but may up that to 10 to make sure it flows. I was kind of counting on it being a bit like rye but not quite as bad.

What temps did you mash it at devo and what %age did you use it at?

 

[np1962]

Torrefied Wheat is basically puffed wheat, it has been pre gelatinised. This is basically the difference between it and Raw Wheat.
So, what you need to do is gelatinise the raw wheat before you are able to convert the starches to sugars.
The good thing is the gelatinisation temperature of wheat is 52 to 54C.
I would rest at 52C for 30 mins before going on to your normal Saccharification rest.
Nige

 

[Tony]

Ahhhhh nice info.

So it wont hurt to do an acid rest prior i guess to add more tartness and drop the pH i guess.

Might give this a go..... see how bad i can stuff it up

 

[devo]

Mmmm i kind of fighred it may be like that........ i have added 8 liters volume rice gulls to the mash but may up that to 10 to make sure it flows. I was kind of counting on it being a bit like rye but not quite as bad.

What temps did you mash it at devo and what %age did you use it at?

I've mashed at 68c and used it up to 1/2 of my grist along with pils and wheat malt whilst still using a fair amount of hulls. Also watch for boil overs as the wheat is high in protein and foams up big time. Some random hop kettle additions will help keep it down along with a few squirts of water with a spray bottle.

 

[np1962]

Ahhhhh nice info.

So it wont hurt to do an acid rest prior i guess to add more tartness and drop the pH i guess.

Might give this a go..... see how bad i can stuff it up

Won't do any harm.
Plenty of options, plenty will say just go for the single infusion as the wheat will gelatinise at sacch temp anyway.
Be interested how you decide to go and the results.
Cheers
Nige

 

[SJW]

Hey Tony, Im back and its good to see u still around. As for the wheat, just trreat it like oats. Boil em up for a bit then add to the mash

 

[Tony]

mmmm im not looking forward to the boil. Last time i made a roggen i remember turning the gas on and off saying..... break ya *******...... BREAK!

i think i will try the acid rest to get some tartness as im using sweetish orange peel so this will help ballance, and it will be good practice for the berlinner weise i plan to have a crack at in the future

might go with:

Belt you Witless


Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 54.00 Wort Size (L): 54.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.80
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.57
Anticipated EBC: 6.3
Anticipated IBU: 16.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
42.4 5.00 kg. Unmalted Wheat Australia 1.036 3
42.4 5.00 kg. Malteuro Pilsner kind AHB'er 1.038 4
8.5 1.00 kg. Quick Oats Uncle Tobys 1.032 4
6.8 0.80 kg. Rice Gulls Australia 1.000 0


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
70.00 g. Saphire Pellet 4.50 15.4 45 min.
20.00 g. Saphire Pellet 4.50 1.0 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 gm Bitter Orange Peel Spice 10 Min.(boil)
20.00 gm Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
acid 5 60 38 35 Infuse 42 17.70 1.50
protein 5 20 52 52 Infuse 99 7.98 2.18
mash 5 60 65 65 Infuse 99 12.04 3.20

 

[devo]

Looks yummo Tony. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I find a shorter boil time (40 to 60min) can produce better results rather than a full 90min boil.

 

[Tony]

Hey Tony, Im back and its good to see u still around. As for the wheat, just trreat it like oats. Boil em up for a bit then add to the mash

Great to see you back mate

Too late, its all mixed up in the mash tun..... tomorrow is gunna be an adventure!

Looks yummo Tony. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I find a shorter boil time (40 to 60min) can produce better results rather than a full 90min boil.

Copy that!

I usually top up with water after the sparge as aposed to over sparge so i will skip this and go a 60 min boil.

cheers

 

[hopcycle]

I would cook the wheat to open up the starch granules. This will allow access for enzymes. I can't imagine just mashing bits of wheat or rolled wheat without cooking first. I would imagine that the efficiency is relatively poor.

Hope yours is good. I made one this morning with lots of rolled wheat and oats that were cooked.

With "good" brewing practices it is hard to produce a beer as cloudy as Hoegaarden!

I would second the comment regarding boil times....less time at boiling temp would theoretically leave more protein and starch in the wort

 

[hopcycle]

I would cook the wheat to open up the starch granules. This will allow access for enzymes. I can't imagine just mashing bits of wheat or rolled wheat without cooking first. I would imagine that the efficiency is relatively poor.

Hope yours is good. I made one this morning with lots of rolled wheat and oats that were cooked.

With "good" brewing practices it is hard to produce a beer as cloudy as Hoegaarden!

I would second the comment regarding boil times....less time at boiling temp would theoretically leave more protein and starch in the wort

 

[brando]

Tony,

Do you know what variety of raw wheat you bought? Or, what variety is best for brewing?

The reason I ask is because I have access to LOTS of wheat, and several different varieties to choose from (Duram, APH1 & 2, ASW, H2, AUH2, etc). Wondering whether high protein or low protein is better?

 

[Tony]

I bought JW raw wheat:

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2750

To be honest i have no idea what would be better for making a wit...... protein level wise........ thats a good question!

If i had the choice id go with something with the best flavour profile i guess...... maybe with a middle of the range protein level around 11 to 12%.

you want protein but too much (the 13 to 14% premium stuff) would be really gummy id say. We used to process 14% flour in a starch plant i worked at years ago....... and damn it was gummy, but smelt great. It felt heavy and while it made AWSOME bread....... i dont know how good high protein wheat would be for brewing

 

[np1962]

I would cook the wheat to open up the starch granules. This will allow access for enzymes. I can't imagine just mashing bits of wheat or rolled wheat without cooking first. I would imagine that the efficiency is relatively poor.

Hope yours is good. I made one this morning with lots of rolled wheat and oats that were cooked.

With "good" brewing practices it is hard to produce a beer as cloudy as Hoegaarden!

I would second the comment regarding boil times....less time at boiling temp would theoretically leave more protein and starch in the wort

Absolutely no need for cooking the wheat, as I said previously the gelatinisation temp is in the low 50's C. We are not talking rice or corn here which have gelatinisation temps ABOVE normal mash temps.
Nige

 

[jakub76]

My understanding is that a long protien rest around 50C will suffice, some do a cereal mash but it sounds too much like work.

I would suggest that a short boil wouldn't be a great idea because of DMS.