Liam_snorkel
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Mangrove Jack Craft Series Yeasts
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technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Might be a good idea.
What would actually be truly useful is the estimated Attenuation of each yeast.
I actually liked the finish of the British Ale & Belgian Ale, maybe the Burton Union also. But i find it really discouraging to not know at least a reasonable estimate of the attenuation of each. If i was doing a truckload of (repetitive) brewing i'm sure i could easily develop my own estimate. But since i don't, and the FG is so very important when designing a recipe and Mash schedule, it makes it difficult to use these yeasts compared to others with more known attenuation.
Seems bizarre MJ doesn't recognise this and release their estimates for attenuations. Surely they'd have them!
What would actually be truly useful is the estimated Attenuation of each yeast.
I actually liked the finish of the British Ale & Belgian Ale, maybe the Burton Union also. But i find it really discouraging to not know at least a reasonable estimate of the attenuation of each. If i was doing a truckload of (repetitive) brewing i'm sure i could easily develop my own estimate. But since i don't, and the FG is so very important when designing a recipe and Mash schedule, it makes it difficult to use these yeasts compared to others with more known attenuation.
Seems bizarre MJ doesn't recognise this and release their estimates for attenuations. Surely they'd have them!
growler
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Techno...
On their site (MJ)... I'm sure you can find the link... each yeast variety is rated for attenuation and flocculation properties.
Admittedly only high/medium etc. ratings... but 3s of searching would have answered your question/assertation.
G.
or see Post # 20 first page pdf from AndrewQLD.
On their site (MJ)... I'm sure you can find the link... each yeast variety is rated for attenuation and flocculation properties.
Admittedly only high/medium etc. ratings... but 3s of searching would have answered your question/assertation.
G.
or see Post # 20 first page pdf from AndrewQLD.
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Yep. Did those 3secs when I first used MJs. Read it and all the other info they currently release to the public (I believe) ages ago.
The other 2 main yeast producers quantify their yeast attenuation - significantly more useful info to a home brewer. By roughly a factor of 20.
I appreciate MJ's disclosure of the general inclination of their yeast strains, however it's too inaccurate when you're trying to use calculations to estimate FG.
What is "high" as a percentage? Or what is "5"?
I appreciate we have to deal with a few variables such that estimates are guesstimates, but dealing with such a large variable seems to be unnecessarily difficult considering the other 2 seem easily capable of producing ranges of 1-5% variation.
Don't get me wrong, I like at least a few of their yeasts and would preferentially use them, I just find it unnecessary and a bit annoying/frustrating to not provide info that they most likely would have and is clearly useful to the homebrewer.
A verbal description and a score out of 5 simply doesn't cut it when you need a quantitative estimate.
Or rather, Why don't they release that info?
The other 2 main yeast producers quantify their yeast attenuation - significantly more useful info to a home brewer. By roughly a factor of 20.
I appreciate MJ's disclosure of the general inclination of their yeast strains, however it's too inaccurate when you're trying to use calculations to estimate FG.
What is "high" as a percentage? Or what is "5"?
I appreciate we have to deal with a few variables such that estimates are guesstimates, but dealing with such a large variable seems to be unnecessarily difficult considering the other 2 seem easily capable of producing ranges of 1-5% variation.
Don't get me wrong, I like at least a few of their yeasts and would preferentially use them, I just find it unnecessary and a bit annoying/frustrating to not provide info that they most likely would have and is clearly useful to the homebrewer.
A verbal description and a score out of 5 simply doesn't cut it when you need a quantitative estimate.
Or rather, Why don't they release that info?
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
True, but if your attenuation varies by, say 10%, then how can you calculate your FG??
How would you adjust your mash or grist to compensate?
I can allow for a 1-2% variation as batch-dependant, etc, but having NFI across a 10% range is a bit tricky.
FWIW, i've found those estimates the other 2 give to be 95% accurate. A point either way in FG is fine; it's when it drops an extra 5 points than expected that things go awry. I work fairly hard to nail all those other aspects of the brewing process to reduce those variables to 1-2%. I might as well use Yob's thumb, just throw stuff in as i go, and ferment in a bucket on the shelf if i'm dealing with such a large unknown.
And i can appreciate their are some exceptions like Belgian yeasts who are notorious for being temperamental high attenuators.
Again,
The others do it, so why can't MJ?
Not trying to rag on MJ (though it might sound a bit like it). I just don't understand why they wouldn't release that quantitative info.
Could anyone explain why they wouldn't?
How would you adjust your mash or grist to compensate?
I can allow for a 1-2% variation as batch-dependant, etc, but having NFI across a 10% range is a bit tricky.
FWIW, i've found those estimates the other 2 give to be 95% accurate. A point either way in FG is fine; it's when it drops an extra 5 points than expected that things go awry. I work fairly hard to nail all those other aspects of the brewing process to reduce those variables to 1-2%. I might as well use Yob's thumb, just throw stuff in as i go, and ferment in a bucket on the shelf if i'm dealing with such a large unknown.
And i can appreciate their are some exceptions like Belgian yeasts who are notorious for being temperamental high attenuators.
Again,
The others do it, so why can't MJ?
Not trying to rag on MJ (though it might sound a bit like it). I just don't understand why they wouldn't release that quantitative info.
Could anyone explain why they wouldn't?
brewchampion
Active Member
technobabble66
The relative attenuation is supplied in the Mangrove jacks yeast booklet. But I find dried yeast is a tad lower.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/MJ_Craft_Series__A5_Yeast_Booklet.pdf?1935
And I suppose i can see why they dont compare directly. Maybe (although I am guessing), 1/ they are not the same strains 2/ copyright
Although WY and WL already have some great comparison charts:
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
Liam, I think it is a good point , why? I suppose partly 1/ [SIZE=13.2px] This would give us all a better idea of to what yeast we are using. 2/ Geeky curiosity.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.2px]So guys! What the hell is the M10 workhorse??[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
The relative attenuation is supplied in the Mangrove jacks yeast booklet. But I find dried yeast is a tad lower.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/MJ_Craft_Series__A5_Yeast_Booklet.pdf?1935
And I suppose i can see why they dont compare directly. Maybe (although I am guessing), 1/ they are not the same strains 2/ copyright
Although WY and WL already have some great comparison charts:
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
Liam, I think it is a good point , why? I suppose partly 1/ [SIZE=13.2px] This would give us all a better idea of to what yeast we are using. 2/ Geeky curiosity.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.2px]So guys! What the hell is the M10 workhorse??[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
I used the M44 about a year ago in an APA and took around 2 days to kick off and thought maybe it's just the way it works...
I pitched 3 packs rehydrated M44 into 45Ltr 1050 gravity APA @ 16 degrees on Monday morning and it had a full krausen when I arrived home from work 9 hours later.
I let temp rise to 20 degrees... Its now Thursday and gravity is down to 1016 and still going.. I overpitched slightly but thinking its all in the handling b4 you purchase it. I mashed at 67 and hope its not going to go too low now.
I pitched 3 packs rehydrated M44 into 45Ltr 1050 gravity APA @ 16 degrees on Monday morning and it had a full krausen when I arrived home from work 9 hours later.
I let temp rise to 20 degrees... Its now Thursday and gravity is down to 1016 and still going.. I overpitched slightly but thinking its all in the handling b4 you purchase it. I mashed at 67 and hope its not going to go too low now.
HBHB
Well-Known Member
Not yet. Planning to run up a large batch of very bland beer and split it into 10 odd small ferments to try them all in 1 go should give a reasonable idea on flavours.QldKev said:
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Sounds great HBHB.
Eager to see the report on how it goes!
Eager to see the report on how it goes!
RobB
Well-Known Member
Wow, they have doubled their range! When did that happen?
Although I see that the British and Burton Union strains are no longer listed: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/72539_V1_MJ_CS_Yeast_Bk_lores.pdf?15349190601803791344
UK Dark appears on their yeasts' homepage, but is no longer in the product handbook. Strains listed below with newer ones in bold.
M76 Bavarian Lager
M20 Bavarian Wheat
M47 Belgian Abbey
M41 Belgian Ale
M31 Belgian Tripel
M21 Belgian Wit
M84 Bohemian Lager
M54 Californian Lager
M15 Empire Ale
M29 French Saison
M36 Liberty Bell Ale
M42 New World Strong Ale
M44 US West Coast
M02 Cider
M05 Mead
I'll admit that I like some of their strains and not others, but that's an impressive range.
Although I see that the British and Burton Union strains are no longer listed: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/72539_V1_MJ_CS_Yeast_Bk_lores.pdf?15349190601803791344
UK Dark appears on their yeasts' homepage, but is no longer in the product handbook. Strains listed below with newer ones in bold.
M76 Bavarian Lager
M20 Bavarian Wheat
M47 Belgian Abbey
M41 Belgian Ale
M31 Belgian Tripel
M21 Belgian Wit
M84 Bohemian Lager
M54 Californian Lager
M15 Empire Ale
M29 French Saison
M36 Liberty Bell Ale
M42 New World Strong Ale
M44 US West Coast
M02 Cider
M05 Mead
I'll admit that I like some of their strains and not others, but that's an impressive range.
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Wow. Very impressive range now. Hopefully most of them (the new ones) are good ones - will be fantastic if they are.
I'm sure they wouldn't, but it'd be kinda funny if all the new ones are the same as the old ones, just with different labels
h34r: :lol:
I'm sure they wouldn't, but it'd be kinda funny if all the new ones are the same as the old ones, just with different labels
h34r: :lol:
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
AND THEY FINALLY HAVE ESTIMATED ATTENUATION RANGES!!!
Hallelujah!
The essential piece of the puzzle... well, it's at least nice to have a number to enter into my spreadsheet now. Great to see that extra piece of info has been added in. Looking forward to hearing the results the new ones provide, they certainly sound interesting.
Now, to see if Full Pint have them on board........
EDIT: bit sad to see the British Ale is gone, i thought that was quite good. I wonder if the Liberty Bell Ale (or New World Strong ale) is the re-labelled British Ale...
And the Empire Ale characteristics sound rather like the previous Dark Ale strain...
:icon_offtopic: Double Team is a terrible terrible film. How on earth did Van Damme make so many films?!? He has got to be the worst of the 80's action actors.
Hallelujah!
The essential piece of the puzzle... well, it's at least nice to have a number to enter into my spreadsheet now. Great to see that extra piece of info has been added in. Looking forward to hearing the results the new ones provide, they certainly sound interesting.
Now, to see if Full Pint have them on board........
EDIT: bit sad to see the British Ale is gone, i thought that was quite good. I wonder if the Liberty Bell Ale (or New World Strong ale) is the re-labelled British Ale...
And the Empire Ale characteristics sound rather like the previous Dark Ale strain...
:icon_offtopic: Double Team is a terrible terrible film. How on earth did Van Damme make so many films?!? He has got to be the worst of the 80's action actors.
RobB
Well-Known Member
Malty Cultural said:
technobabble66 said:I'm sure they wouldn't, but it'd be kinda funny if all the new ones are the same as the old ones, just with different labels
Reading the descriptions, it seems some of the old strains have simply been rebadged.technobabble66 said:
British = New World Strong
Burton = Liberty Bell
UK Dark = Empire
The descriptions are exactly the same, yet the titles couldn't be more different. How do British and Burton suddenly leap across the Atlantic and become New World and Liberty Bell?
Never mind, that still makes seven new strains.
brewchampion
Active Member
Interesting observations Malty Cultural
The renaming seems very imaginative. But I think the original names weren't necessarily accurate the the first place.
Ive always suspected M07 BRITISH was WLP007 whitbread dry / WY1098 British Ale Yeast / Safale s-04 - Fermentis
But I originaly though "new world strong" Would be more like californian super yeast. , but after Maltys suggestion, maybe not.
I thought M79 Burton Union was WLP023 Burton ale WY1275 Thames Valley Ale, but the reports for this strain from MJ Dry was inconsistent. So maybe the new name is more accurate> This yeast got quite a bad wrap.
But originally I though "Liberty bell" Sounded like the Anchor Liberty strain: WLP051 California V Ale Yeast // 1272 American Ale Yeast II. Now that name rings a bell !!
UK dark = empire. Im uncertain about that. The UK dark also had a bad wrap, prob due to problems with vitality.
I think this new strain is an old dry strain.. muntons gold, : WY1968 / WLP-002. In large scale production already. Name well suited.
As for the rest...
A bit shocked, as my previous theory had been that these yeasts were repackaged.
Reason being: Yeast scientists have told me dried yeast is very difficult to make. (Something about O2)
But with the variety of this release. I dont think there is this many dried yeast available anywhere already,, is there?
Are they really making this themselves>??I do love to cross compare so here goes..
[SIZE=14pt]M76 Bavarian Lager.. another available [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Saflager S189 , or S23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M20 Bavarian Wheat. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Safbrew WB-06 ?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M47 Belgian Abbey ??? Anyone guess> Im not good at Belgian yeast[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M41 Belgian Ale (M27 renamed ?) [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Safbrew T-58[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M31 Belgian Tripel ???? Wow ! cool![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M21 Belgian Wit,, same as [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Brewferm [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]"Blanche"?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M84 Bohemian Lager, Saflager "[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]34/70"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M54 Californian Lager [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Wyeast 2112?? (another anchor strain?)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M15 Empire Ale as discussed, muntons gold?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M29 French Saison YES !!! Should be a wine yeast by definition. WY[/SIZE]3711 French Saison Brasserie Thiriez
[SIZE=14pt]M36 Liberty Bell Ale, Cal ale 2, as discussed above ? Its a nice strain. [/SIZE]WLP051 California V Ale Yeast // 1272 American Ale Yeast II.
[SIZE=14pt]M42 New World Strong Ale, I hope its [/SIZE]WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast because its incredible
[SIZE=14pt]M44 US West Coast, well US05 would be cheep to repackage, but a little bird told me it was [/SIZE]wy1764 Pacman / rogue ???
[SIZE=14pt]M02 Cider , I have no idea [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M05 Mead ?
sources[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]My page updating now...[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
Other sites;
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0093/2142/files/Yeast_Substitutions.pdf?1928
http://pastbrews.goodloegroup.com/2013/11/dry-yeast-substitution.html
http://byo.com/resources/yeast
The renaming seems very imaginative. But I think the original names weren't necessarily accurate the the first place.
Ive always suspected M07 BRITISH was WLP007 whitbread dry / WY1098 British Ale Yeast / Safale s-04 - Fermentis
But I originaly though "new world strong" Would be more like californian super yeast. , but after Maltys suggestion, maybe not.
I thought M79 Burton Union was WLP023 Burton ale WY1275 Thames Valley Ale, but the reports for this strain from MJ Dry was inconsistent. So maybe the new name is more accurate> This yeast got quite a bad wrap.
But originally I though "Liberty bell" Sounded like the Anchor Liberty strain: WLP051 California V Ale Yeast // 1272 American Ale Yeast II. Now that name rings a bell !!
UK dark = empire. Im uncertain about that. The UK dark also had a bad wrap, prob due to problems with vitality.
I think this new strain is an old dry strain.. muntons gold, : WY1968 / WLP-002. In large scale production already. Name well suited.
As for the rest...
A bit shocked, as my previous theory had been that these yeasts were repackaged.
Reason being: Yeast scientists have told me dried yeast is very difficult to make. (Something about O2)
But with the variety of this release. I dont think there is this many dried yeast available anywhere already,, is there?
Are they really making this themselves>??I do love to cross compare so here goes..
[SIZE=14pt]M76 Bavarian Lager.. another available [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Saflager S189 , or S23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M20 Bavarian Wheat. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Safbrew WB-06 ?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M47 Belgian Abbey ??? Anyone guess> Im not good at Belgian yeast[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M41 Belgian Ale (M27 renamed ?) [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Safbrew T-58[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M31 Belgian Tripel ???? Wow ! cool![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M21 Belgian Wit,, same as [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Brewferm [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]"Blanche"?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M84 Bohemian Lager, Saflager "[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]34/70"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M54 Californian Lager [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Wyeast 2112?? (another anchor strain?)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M15 Empire Ale as discussed, muntons gold?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M29 French Saison YES !!! Should be a wine yeast by definition. WY[/SIZE]3711 French Saison Brasserie Thiriez
[SIZE=14pt]M36 Liberty Bell Ale, Cal ale 2, as discussed above ? Its a nice strain. [/SIZE]WLP051 California V Ale Yeast // 1272 American Ale Yeast II.
[SIZE=14pt]M42 New World Strong Ale, I hope its [/SIZE]WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast because its incredible
[SIZE=14pt]M44 US West Coast, well US05 would be cheep to repackage, but a little bird told me it was [/SIZE]wy1764 Pacman / rogue ???
[SIZE=14pt]M02 Cider , I have no idea [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]M05 Mead ?
sources[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]My page updating now...[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
Other sites;
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0093/2142/files/Yeast_Substitutions.pdf?1928
http://pastbrews.goodloegroup.com/2013/11/dry-yeast-substitution.html
http://byo.com/resources/yeast
That's the second time the Empire has been renamed. Originally Newcastle Dark, then UK Dark, now Empire.
I found the UK Dark to be a rottweiler, chewed through a brew of porter in four days then dropped like a rock. I thought the fermentation had failed till I took a sample.
HBHB do you have the new range for sale yet or is the range still as on your website?
I put in an order over the weekend and if the new ones are available I wouldn't mind slipping a few in as a supplemental order before you despatch order #1.
I found the UK Dark to be a rottweiler, chewed through a brew of porter in four days then dropped like a rock. I thought the fermentation had failed till I took a sample.
HBHB do you have the new range for sale yet or is the range still as on your website?
I put in an order over the weekend and if the new ones are available I wouldn't mind slipping a few in as a supplemental order before you despatch order #1.
onesnzeros
Member
According to a foreign MJ distributor, the M29 French Saison is the M27 Belgian...
M36 Liberty Bell Ale is the Burton Union and M42 New World Strong Ale is the M07.
It's gotta be true, cos i read it on the internet.
M44 US West Coast is definitely 1764 Rogue Pacman though.
these are some other close approximations i use...
M20 Bavarian Wheat - Wyeast 3638
M79 Burton Union - Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley or WLP023
M84 Bohemian Lager - Wyeast 2124 or WLP830
M07 British Ale Yeast - WLP007
M36 Liberty Bell Ale is the Burton Union and M42 New World Strong Ale is the M07.
It's gotta be true, cos i read it on the internet.
M44 US West Coast is definitely 1764 Rogue Pacman though.
these are some other close approximations i use...
M20 Bavarian Wheat - Wyeast 3638
M79 Burton Union - Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley or WLP023
M84 Bohemian Lager - Wyeast 2124 or WLP830
M07 British Ale Yeast - WLP007
brewchampion
Active Member
Tx onesnzeros,onesnzeros said:
I found the post in question...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7411736&postcount=17
Im thinking, that either
1/ The post is complete horse ****....
or
2/ Its true, and MJ dried yeast product is horse ****.
There is no way the Mangrove Jacks dried yeast could possibly be renamed into completely different beer styles.
If MJ think they can do this, then there product isnt worth putting into your brew. You wont get a beer any where near style!
I hope the renaming is BS anyhow.
Updated:
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
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