Kooinda Black Ipa

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punkin

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I'd like to brew a black IPA in the style this beer is brewed in. I really enjoyed one on New Years Eve.

There's a couple links here to a vague description, one says the hops are all Nelson Sauvign, dry hopped and 70 ibu's so that bit should be possible for me to replicate.

I have no idea baout the grain bill however, aside from that they say "It uses dehusked malt to provide its black colour & is combined with 6 specialty malts to provide a black beer with the body & flavour of a traditional India Pale Ale."

http://www.kooinda.com.au/the-beer/black-ipa/

http://craftypint.com/beer/brewery/kooinda...aka-full-nelson


Some help from those more experienced would be appreciated.
 

punkin

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Found these proposed style guidlines..

It's also called Cacadian Dark Ale as well as black IPA or IBA

This just in, via the Oregon Brew Crew Feb. '10 newsletter.

Aroma: prominent NW hop aromas: citrus, pine, resinous, sweet malt, hints of roast, toast, chocolate malt, and/or Carafa back-up the hops. Dry hopped character is often present. No diacetyl, esters generally range from low to none.

Appearance: Deep brown to black with ruby highlights. Head varies from white to tan/khaki

Flavor: A balance between piney, citrus-like and spicy NW hop flavor, bitterness, caramel malt, and roast, chocolate, or Carafa-type malts. Roast character ranges from subtle to medium. Black malt is acceptable at low levels, but should not be astringent. Intense ashy, burnt character is not appropriate. Caramel malt as a secondary flavor is acceptable but the finish should be dry. Diacetyl should not be present. Emphasis should be on hop flavor.

Mouthfeel: Light to medium, hop bitterness and tannins from roast malts combine to create a dry mouthfeel. Resinous character from high levels of dry hopping may create a tongue coating sensation.

Overall Impression: A highly-hopped, medium-bodied dark ale, similar in many ways to a strong version of American IPA, except that it incorporates dark malts and signature NW hop varieties, often in conjunction with fruity esters. Bitterness and body is much closer to an IPA balance than a strong ale or American stout. Finish is a nuanced interplay of hop and roast bitterness to create a dry quenching impression.

History: A style that came to prominence on the Northwest Coast of North America in the early
21st Century. Northwest hops play key flavor roles, balanced with malt, roast malts give color and flavor, but body should be reminiscent of an IPA, not heavy like a porter or stout. The style celebrates the hops of the Pacific Northwest, but is commonly brewed in other regions.

Comments: Some brewers prefer to cold steep the dark grains to achieve a very dark beer without the tannin contribution of adding the grains to the mash. The use of Sinnamar to enhance color is common. The interaction of dark, roasted malts and grains with NW hop character creates a unique spicy flavor component described as minty, or rosemary like.

Ingredients: Pale or pilsner malt, some mid-range caramel malt in a supporting role, Carfa type
malts, both regular and debittered, small amounts of chocolate malt, roast barley, and black patent malts can also be used. Northwest American hop varieties, or hops with similar characteristics (eg New Zealand), for flavor and aroma additions. Heavy dry-hopping is common.

IBUs 60-90+
Color: 40+ SRM
OG: 1.060-1.075 (15-18 P)
FG: 1.008-1.016 (2-4 P)
Abv 6.0-7.75%

Classic Examples: Rogue Brewer, Phllips Black Toque, Hopworks Secession CDA, Barley Browns Turmoil, Widmer W10 Pitch Black IPA, Lucky Lab Black Sheep, Three Creeks 8 Second IBA, Block 15 Benton Brigade, Stone 11th Anniversary (Sublimely Self-Righteous) Ale, Walking Man Big Black Homo, Rogue Black Brutal, Laughing Dog Dogzilla, Southern Tier Iniquity
 

Truman42

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I just recently did this Black IPA which was a recipe given to me by Scrumpy. It was very nice but wasn't quite as bitter or hoppy as Kooindas, (Which is a bloody nice drop I must admit)
You may want to increase the IBU to match Kooindas bitterness and increase the 0 min or dry hop addition to match also.

SG 1.060
FG 1.014
75 min boil
mash at 65

American Ale 1272
Grain %
Pilsener 78
Biscuit 6
Wheat 6
Crystal medium 4
Carafa II 3
Chocolate 3

Centennial 60 mins to 50 IBU
EKG 10 mins to 5 IBU
EKG approx 1 gram per litre at 0 mins

Dry hop with Centennial 1 gram per litre

photo.JPG
 

punkin

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Good stuff mate. In all my readings so far they say that dehusked carafa is an important ingredient. Is the carafa 11 dehusked or do you have to ask for dehusked?

This one seems like a typical basic recipe...

A Midsummers Day Night (brewed on July 31, 2010 with J.P. Bierly)

Grain Bill

9 lb American 2-row

2 lb De-husked German Carafa

0.5 lb British Chocolate Malt

These were mashed in a single infusion at about 150 F for one hour with 3 gal of water. After the mash, the grains were sparged with 6 gal of water at 177 F. The wort was collected and boiled for 60 min, with the following hop additions:

1 oz Zeus (13.5% alpha acid amazing hop, first time Ive used it) for 60 min (bittering)

1 oz each Cascade and Amarillo for 30 min (flavor)

1 oz each Cascade and Amarillo at the end of the boil (aroma)
 

Mayor of Mildura

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Good stuff mate. In all my readings so far they say that dehusked carafa is an important ingredient. Is the carafa 11 dehusked or do you have to ask for dehusked?

This one seems like a typical basic recipe...
here it is on craftbrewer. It comes dehusked. Another dark malt that you may want to consider is Briess midnight wheat. I got some from grain and grape. Similar to the carafa it adds colour without adding the intense roasted flavour.
 

punkin

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So a bit of dicking round with your recipe gave me this...

Black IPA1 (Cascadian Dark Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 6.52 %
Colour (SRM): 31.3 (EBC): 61.7
Bitterness (IBU): 67.5 (Average)

78% Pale Ale Malt
6% Wheat Malt
4% Biscuit
4% Carafa II malt
4% Chocolate
4% Crystal 120

1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
2.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with BrewMate



Any input or comments are welcome, i have no idea what i'm doing or how to match a beer. I just used the style nazi on brewmate to help.

I'll order some of the buscuit and carafa11 from Ross this week if there's no feedback, i have the rest.
 

punkin

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here it is on craftbrewer. It comes dehusked. Another dark malt that you may want to consider is Briess midnight wheat. I got some from grain and grape. Similar to the carafa it adds colour without adding the intense roasted flavour.

Thanks they list it as carafa and carafa special. Looks like the special is the dehusked one?
 

Mayor of Mildura

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Thanks they list it as carafa and carafa special. Looks like the special is the dehusked one?
that's right. It adds colour without the harsh flavour. When you munch on a bit raw and you can tell the difference to a normal roasted malt.
 

Mayor of Mildura

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That looks like a cracking recipe Punkin. Even if it isn't an exact clone it will be a top beer. I've used choc chit a few times (before it was discontinued) and i reckon it'll work well in your recipe. I've changed to Fawcetts pale choc now. It is a fairly good substitute.
 

punkin

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That looks like a cracking recipe Punkin. Even if it isn't an exact clone it will be a top beer. I've used choc chit a few times (before it was discontinued) and i reckon it'll work well in your recipe. I've changed to Fawcetts pale choc now. It is a fairly good substitute.
Thanks mate. It's Trumans recipe i just played around with it a bit.

Craftbrewer says the closest sub to the chit is choc pale so i tweaked it to stay inside the style nazi..

Black IPA1 (Cascadian Dark Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 6.52 %
Colour (SRM): 30.3 (EBC): 59.6
Bitterness (IBU): 67.5 (Average)

78% Pale Ale Malt
5% Carafa II malt
5% Wheat Malt
4% Biscuit
4% Chocolate, Pale
4% Crystal 120

1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
2.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with BrewMate
 

Rowy

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That looks like a cracker of a beer. Kooinda dark IPA is one of my top 5 favourite beers. This thred goes to my favourites and I will be brewing this in the next couple fo weeks. Thanks for putting this together Truman and Punkin. This type of thing is why I love the site!
 

Jace89

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When you make this beer let us know how the bittering goes with NS. Ive used it maybe once for bitter and found it a little harsh, I'd go easy on the 60min addition.
I might have a crack at a Black IPA myself with NS but maybe use FWH instead of a 60 addition....thinking out loud.
 

punkin

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You're welcome for what my little bit is worth.

Just looked at the hops, my 88l batch has $30 worth of hops in it :blink:



That's the kilo i got last week gone in two brews, Ross's summer ale and then this when i brew it :drinks:
 

Truman42

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Keep us posted. I'm curious to see how your variation turns out.
Mine was very nice, My best home brew yet.
But as I said probably not as bitter or hoppy as Kooinda.
 

seemax

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You can add the carafa or similar late in the mash too if you just want the colour but less of the roastiness.

Choc chit is good....
 

punkin

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Found that it was a little exe to get a few kilos of the specialty grains in for that bill, so decided to tweak it to the grains i have here. <_<

I still think it will work OK with the victory substituting for the biscuit, and the Midnight Wheat substituting for the carafa11.

A little darker, but hopefully no more astringent?

Any comment's welcome, i have 88l of Ross's Nelson Sauvign summer Ale in the fermenter atm, so won't be brewing this till the w'end after this one...

Black ipa2 (Cascadian Dark Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 6.52 %
Colour (SRM): 38.5 (EBC): 75.8
Bitterness (IBU): 66.6 (Average)

79% Pale Ale Malt
5% Wheat Malt
4% Chocolate
4% Crystal 120
4% Victory
4% Wheat Malt, Midnight

1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
2.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with BrewMate
 

Rowy

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Put the original recipe Truman and Punkin put together down yesterday. Touch wood everything went well. Used Galaxy and Nth Brewer instead of NS as I love that shit at the moment. Anyway I'll tell you how it went.
 

punkin

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Cool.

I had a shocker black ipa the other day. i bought a bottle of Beastie Boys.

The operation Mongoose from the RDB is a million miles on that beer B)


What a waste of seven bucks.

I had a knapstein that was real good though B) :p :D
 

sim

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...hmmm thats a shame. i really quite like the yeasty boys - pot kettle black.
 
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