Knurling on a Mashmaster Mini Mill

[dicko]

Well it does sound like the past problems have been solved, now just the test of time I guess. When my old Valley Mill packs it in I'll go a Mashmaster.
Did you have any problem with dough balls Dicko? :lol:

After 12 pages on the subject I am sure if anyone has any trouble you will hear about it on here.

You know, I could not believe how easy the dough in became.....not a dough ball in site.

 

[SBOB]

You know, I could not believe how easy the dough in became.....not a dough ball in site.

so, in summary, just to be clear...could you... in your own words... let us know whether there was any issue with dough balls during the dough in stages?

 

[bradsbrew]

What's a doughball?













Ooops sorry wrong thread.

 

[seamad]

i make pizza with mine

 

[Parks]

i make pizza with mine

I lift mine up to wee.

 

[Feldon]

This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link

http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf

Some of this 2014 presentation seems to be based on an earlier 2007 presentation by Bob Hansen of Briess Malts in the US called 'Practical Milling for the Craftbrewer'. For those interested a Powerpoint is available via a link on this web page: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Malting101/Technical_Presentations.htm Note that the speaking notes are available below each slide. (OT, several of the other brewing topics on this page might also be of interest).

Hansen's presentation is referenced in a more explanatory paper 'Mills and Milling' by the appropriately named Dave Miller (author of Brew Like a Pro) which is available here: http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html Note that the last section deals briefly with Wet Milling. (OT, again several of his other articles might be of interest also).

 

[Rocker1986]

Nice one Dicko, that mirrors my experience with the one knurled/one fluted roller set up. Definitely a lot less flour in the crush, and .... no dough balls. :lol: I'll probably leave the gap setting where it is for now, but yes definitely making brew days a lot more enjoyable firstly not taking an hour to mill the grains and secondly getting back to my old efficiency numbers again.

 

[SBOB]

Definitely a lot less flour in the crush, and .... no dough balls. :lol:

why hasn't anyone mentioned this 'no dough balls' benefit earlier?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Even with high flour using 3:1 water I didnt notice any dough balls. But then again I didnt dump all the grain in, just gently stirred the grains in to make a nice mash

 

[dicko]

Even with high flour using 3:1 water I didnt notice any dough balls. But then again I didnt dump all the grain in, just gently stirred the grains in to make a nice mash

Yes, I have always had some flour and I have always done a similar dough in procedure to your method.
I generally tip approx 1 kilo at a time and then stir until I am sure I have broken the balls. I think there was a movie which featured a ball buster. she was a larger than average woman from memory.
I have found a potato masher good for this also. Thanks spog.....
With my new rollers there was significantly less flour...even less than the Crankenstein 3 roller mill that the new Mashmaster mini mill replaced.
In one of the links quoted above re crush, it was noted that even the Crankenstein two roller produce significantly less flour than other similar mills. I have noticed that my Crank 3 roller did not have the flour that the Mashmaster did.

Now in defence of the Mashmaster mini mill, I bought the mill obviously at the time when the rollers were of less than good quality and when Frank sent me two new rollers they only worked for one or two cracks of around five kilos and then performed the way that my original rollers did. Great service but I was still "snookered"

Because I quite often crack grains for other brewers I had my Mashmaster mini mill rollers re knurled at a local machine shop and the crack was great, however lots of flour was the result.

I think from memory you Stu, have a mill with large diameter rollers and this is probably why you get less flour generally.

Imo this has been a great learning curve for me with grain mills with both, roller size and flute V knurl.
Without getting too carried away with my one result, I am quite happy with the first effort with these new rollers.

 

[dicko]

I might add as well since owning a BM my water to grist ratio is a lot higher than what it was on my 3v system but that did not help the dough ball problem. I dough in generally with 25 litres for a grist of between 3.5 and 6 kilos.

By even the mentioning of dough balls I think many of us brewers on here using any of the basic proprietory grain mills just dealt with dough balls by carefully stirring and ensuring that the balls were broken. It would only be brewers using higher quality mills and some privately manufactured larger diameter roller mills that may not have experienced this phenomena.

 

[TidalPete]

Quote
What's a doughball?

No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will NEVER get doughballs if you underlet.

 

[bradsbrew]

No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will NEVER get doughballs if you underlet.

Wow Pete, did you plant a hidden camera last time you were here?
Today i milled directly into my malt pipe then placed it into the Grainfather so as to underlet, it worked an absolute treat.
And here is a pic of the only flour that made it through the bottom plate.

 

[dicko]

No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will NEVER get doughballs if you underlet.

Wow Pete, haven't seen you for ages.

Got to totally agree. When I had 3 v I almost always underlet without too many problems.
The slower the better, within reason.

I wonder if I can work out how to underlet with a BM, I may try the suggested method from Brad

 

[dicko]

Wow Pete, did you plant a hidden camera last time you were here?
Today i milled directly into my malt pipe then placed it into the Grainfather so as to underlet, it worked an absolute treat.
And here is a pic of the only flour that made it through the bottom plate.

Your pic looks like brick pavers to me Brad. i guess that means that no flour made it through the bottom plate?

I will try your method next time I brew with the BM.

How slowly (or quickly) did you lower the malt pipe??

 

[bradsbrew]

Your pic looks like brick pavers to me Brad. i guess that means that no flour made it through the bottom plate?
I will try your method next time I brew with the BM.
How slowly (or quickly) did you lower the malt pipe??

There is a faint outline of flour.
Slowly lowered it Dicko maybe 20 seconds. I then just let it absorb the water, probably took three minutes until there was a layer of water on top, i then gave it a good mix, put the top plate on and then the pump.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Ok, so having a mill with new fluted rollers got the better of me this morning so I decided to do another brew today to test it out.

I set the mill at 40 thou or 1.016mm with a feeler guage and cracked the grain.

I doughed in and I must say that this has been the easiest dough in that I have done in 14 years of AG brewing.
No dough balls at all. I would say due to the fact that there is bugger all flour in the crush.
I just tip the grain into the liquer and gave it a stir.
With the mash completed I took a sg reading and with my efficiency set at 77% i got 79%
I was not surprised with this as, according to Beersmith my pre boil gravity is normally 1% above what The software says it will be.

I did the normal 80 minute boil and achieved exactly 77% at the end of the boil. This is very close to how my results pan out with the old knurled rollers. All my volumes were spot on.

Did I mention that there were no dough balls when doughing in

I will make fine adjustments to the gap over the next half a dozen brews and gain an average....I have had my efficiency set to 77% for my software but quite often get 78% or sometimes even a tad higher on occasions.
The grist I did today had no wheat in it so I feel I need to crush some wheat and have a look at the result.
All in all for a new set of entirely different rollers in the mill I was quite happy with the result.

Oh, by the way, during dough in there was not a dough ball in sight.

I should also add that my equipment is a 20 litre Braumeister

How was the recirc? Are you confident enough yet to push to 6kg in the mp? If you do let us know how you go.

 

[dicko]

There is a faint outline of flour.
Slowly lowered it Dicko maybe 20 seconds. I then just let it absorb the water, probably took three minutes until there was a layer of water on top, i then gave it a good mix, put the top plate on and then the pump.

Thanks Brad, I will work on it for the BM.

 

[dicko]

How was the recirc? Are you confident enough yet to push to 6kg in the mp? If you do let us know how you go.

The recirculation was, from my observation a lot better flow with the new crush and the wort seemed to clear a lot quicker than it was with the old crush.
At the end of the mash the wort in the gravity test tube was extremely clear. It was an Irish Red Ale that I was brewing and I hope the finished beer comes out the same colour that I saw in the test tube.

I am now 5 beers ahead of my fermentation schedule with 5 cubes awaiting ferment.
I like to do a dopplebock a couple of times a year which I really load the malt pipe with grain. If not I owe myself an IPA which would also be great for a big test.
Either way I will report on the result of loading up the malt pipe.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think from memory you Stu, have a mill with large diameter rollers and this is probably why you get less flour generally.

50mm knurled stainless