Knurling on a Mashmaster Mini Mill

[dicko]

You will need a " Mill Gap measuring device"

Credit cards are about 1mm or go and get a set of feeler gauges

What I have done with my Feeler Gauges is take the most expected combinations of strips of gauge for a grain mill setting and place them in reasonably useable order on the centre screw and nut of the set.
In this way, if you have combined the most common mill gap settings ie; 9mm to 1.2mm close to each other than you aren't trying to wrangle two combined strips from opposing ends of the pack.
Doing this still allows you to adjust the ignition points on your delco holden / morris lucas distrbutor or set the tappets if you are a car enthusiast. :lol: h34r:

 

[dicko]

I emailed Frank at MashMaster for some advice about how to measure the mill gap and what he would recommend as a starting point for an ideal crush. 0.6mm seems pretty narrow but I guess the fluted rollers are completely different to the knurled rollers. I was very impressed with the detail in his reply. I should stress that Mashmaster is not recommending a specific mill gap, rather each Brewer needs to find the correct crush that suits the grain and set up they are using. Thanks Mashmaster.

Here is the reply:



Hi Chris

Short answer, feeler gauges and about 0.6mm to be on the safe side.

Long answer:
I might ask a couple of the home brew stores that sell pre-ground malt what setting they are using with the new rollers which reflects their home brew shop crush. I have actually designed a couple things into the flutes to provide a limit maximum limit of flour that you can produce, with the old knurled rollers you could adjust them way above what you would want for brewing, with the fluted rollers you will get about 10% (full sieve set including 100 mesh) or 15% (short stack no 100 mesh) max in the pan. ASBC ideal is 5%, British Mash Tun 10% (Brits are more practical less theoretical) most commercial 2, 4 and 8 roller mills around the 7-11%. Looking at the top end sieve course particle size I would start around 0.4 mm or 0.5mm as a gap setting that is close as the briess normal grind and commercial roller mills, but such grinds may still be too fine for most people systems. If you have a look at the Rock Port Brewery study in the link courser may actually get you greater efficiency. Just to make it a little more confusing I can also change the grist distribution without changing the gap by altering the running speed of the mill, the fluted rollers are less RPM dependent than the knurled rollers (between 200 and 500RPM) I did not test any higher RPMs because I dont recommend milling that fast at slower speeds down to about 120RPM there was not a big change less than 2-3% variation statistically non significant but much more exhausting because I had to hand turn the mill instead of drill power.

But still if you take RPMs in account it makes it harder again to recommend a gap setting. Other variables moisture contend of the malt and humidity. Wet milling is a totally different story again. I used to many years ago recommend a gap setting for one of my mills and I actually received the odd email of complaint that customers had a stuck sparge so I am just reluctant to offer my opinion based on my system. If I can get some info from the home brew shops to see what their shop grind is like I will publish the data, and no doubt it will not be long until users are out publishing their own experiences on the net.

Feeler gauges are useful if you want to measure the gap but honestly I would not bother for brewing unless you are using somebody’s recommendations that have the same system as you and running at about the same RPM (between 200-500 the fluted rollers will change distribution pattern 2-4% depending at what pan/sieve your looking at. I have measured gap settings at 0.1mm increments and done a full sieve analysis but only because I was looking at trend lines distribution patterns for a brewer go course loose a bit efficiency (or maybe gain it according to the rockport brewery study in the link below) as opposed to stuck sparge and slow launter speed.

is there any chance of seeing...."the link below"

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What Frank basically said was

"Adjust it until you get your desired crush "

 

[Chridech]

is there any chance of seeing...."the link below"

This was the only attachment in the email.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/How%20Good%20Is%20Your%20Grist.pdf

 

[dicko]

What Frank basically said was

"Adjust it until you get your desired crush "

yep, dead right,

the mill gap for a crush on some of these single vessel systems (BM GF etc) varies greatly from a BIAB or a 3V.

Unfortunately, a lot of information comes from the USA where some contributors are still only quoting results from 3V.

Just do it until it is the best result you can get..

 

[dicko]

This was the only attachment in the email.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/How%20Good%20Is%20Your%20Grist.pdf

Thanks for providing the link mate....

 

[nosco]

Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What I have done with my Feeler Gauges is take the most expected combinations of strips of gauge for a grain mill setting and place them in reasonably useable order on the centre screw and nut of the set.
In this way, if you have combined the most common mill gap settings ie; 9mm to 1.2mm close to each other than you aren't trying to wrangle two combined strips from opposing ends of the pack.
Doing this still allows you to adjust the ignition points on your delco holden / morris lucas distrbutor or set the tappets if you are a car enthusiast. :lol: h34r:

Lucky for me I just need a 015" feeler gauge to do the whole car

 

[bradsbrew]

Lucky for me I just need a 015" feeler gauge to do the whole car

Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?

What handbrake

 

[dicko]

Yep, that's what they call sharp-to-sharp, amongst the other possible orientations in mills. The Wolf mills site used to have some explanation of the different types.

Edit: Here it is. Some say it's the best orientation. Some don't.

http://www.wolfengineering.com.au/grinding_and_fluting.html

Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?

Yes i had a look at that....if you wanted sharp to sharp on a Minimill you would have to fit the driven gear on the driven roller on the other end of the roller shaft and then assemble it in the normal way.
We never know, someone may want to try it and report the results.

Most people just but a mill to crack their grain as conveniently as it can be.

 

[dicko]

Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?

When my "handbrake' fails at the shops I usually deal with it with a rubber hose...that usually smartens 'em up. :lol: :lol: h34r:

 

[butisitart]

woo hoo!

CmdrRyekr's hopper shot is a doozy. you could use that for delivering concrete.
pretty impressive

 

[huez]

Thanks for providing the link mate....

This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link

http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf

 

[Chridech]

This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link

http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf

Thanks huez this makes sense now

 

[Mardoo]

The increase referenced in the Rockbottom presentation is similar to what I was seeing mentioned on the German forums - coarser grind giving an efficiency boost from low 80's to high 80's. Not huge, but noticeable. Then there was the guy who sieved out all his hulls for his lager mashes, re-adding them just before lauter (of course needing to re-set the bed). I'll be interested to see what people's experiences are.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've noticed an increase in efficiency since moving to a coarser grind (BIAB setup). Yesterday's brew day was the first with the replacement roller on the mill and achieved my best efficiency for quite a while, coming in at 76.6%. With the old roller and a finer grind it was more in the high 60s. Quite happy about this. :lol:

 

[dicko]

Ok, so having a mill with new fluted rollers got the better of me this morning so I decided to do another brew today to test it out.

I set the mill at 40 thou or 1.016mm with a feeler guage and cracked the grain.

I doughed in and I must say that this has been the easiest dough in that I have done in 14 years of AG brewing.
No dough balls at all. I would say due to the fact that there is bugger all flour in the crush.
I just tip the grain into the liquer and gave it a stir.
With the mash completed I took a sg reading and with my efficiency set at 77% i got 79%
I was not surprised with this as, according to Beersmith my pre boil gravity is normally 1% above what The software says it will be.

I did the normal 80 minute boil and achieved exactly 77% at the end of the boil. This is very close to how my results pan out with the old knurled rollers. All my volumes were spot on.

Did I mention that there were no dough balls when doughing in

I will make fine adjustments to the gap over the next half a dozen brews and gain an average....I have had my efficiency set to 77% for my software but quite often get 78% or sometimes even a tad higher on occasions.
The grist I did today had no wheat in it so I feel I need to crush some wheat and have a look at the result.
All in all for a new set of entirely different rollers in the mill I was quite happy with the result.

Oh, by the way, during dough in there was not a dough ball in sight.

I should also add that my equipment is a 20 litre Braumeister

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Nice one dicko.

 

[Batz]

Well it does sound like the past problems have been solved, now just the test of time I guess. When my old Valley Mill packs it in I'll go a Mashmaster.
Did you have any problem with dough balls Dicko? :lol: