Knurling on a Mashmaster Mini Mill

[Ducatiboy stu]

I just thought, is the 2nd roller a lazy one or is it driven by the first one ?

I use to have to prime my mill with a few grains wedged in before starting it to get the second roller to drive as soon as it is turned on, otherwise the grain would just sit there and get ground into flour with the 2nd roller not spining

 

[nosco]

Its geared so no worries there.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its geared so no worries there.

Mmmm...dont know then. Seems very odd.

 

[Rocker1986]

They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.

 

[bradsbrew]

Mmmm...dont know then. Seems very odd.

It is odd Stu. The knurling should still catch and drag but it doesn't, the grain just bounces around, no matter how fast or slow.

 

[bradsbrew]

They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.

My old marga didnt have as course a knurling but pulled it through.
Maybe the gearing actually prohibits the grip once worn?

 

[Zorco]

Here you go:

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1453633558.848722.jpg

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1453633592.516167.jpg

Great image quality again Liam. Your mill looks different from the stock image sent earlier where the gears were visible.

I gather one is driven and the other is passive?

If so, there seems to be three permutations of mill now.

• New mill with 2 x fluted rollers with gears driving both rollers
• Liam's type mill with two replacement fluted rollers, one driven one passive (TBC)
• Brad's type mill with one replacement fluted roller, knurled roller driven and fluted passive.

Not sure if I've missed another design.

And the overall consensus is that ALL are excellent. Almost like the mere presence of a fluted roller re-births the mill...

Birthing references aside....have I got this summary correct?

 

[bradsbrew]

All rollers on mashmaster mills are driven by gears.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.

The knurling would have to worn down fairly well, even flat rollers can crush grain ( mind you they have to be bigger in diameter)

 

[CmdrRyekr]

Great image quality again Liam. Your mill looks different from the stock image sent earlier where the gears were visible.

I gather one is driven and the other is passive?

If so, there seems to be three permutations of mill now.

• New mill with 2 x fluted rollers with gears driving both rollers
• Liam's type mill with two replacement fluted rollers, one driven one passive (TBC)
• Brad's type mill with one replacement fluted roller, knurled roller driven and fluted passive.

Not sure if I've missed another design.

And the overall consensus is that ALL are excellent. Almost like the mere presence of a fluted roller re-births the mill...

Birthing references aside....have I got this summary correct?

No. Both rollers on all mashmaster minimills are driven, via the gears seen elsewhere in the thread. Note in the above picture one end of the rollers is not visible - that is the driven end!

End of story.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Yep. Sorry for confusion, if I said 'passive' earlier I meant the adjustable one which isn't *directly* driven. The adjustable roller is the one which needed the bushes to be ground down

 

[S.E]

Maybe the gearing actually prohibits the grip once worn?

[SIZE=11pt]I think you may be onto something there, I’ve been wondering this myself. Has anyone actually tried removing the gears so they have one driven and one passive roller? [/SIZE]

 

[Markbeer]

A larger diameter roller is the best solution. But building a mill with such large rollers would weigh a lot and be very expensive.

Large rollers would easily grip grain and push it through. they cant bounce back as the cavity is so large and grain on top several layers in between the rollers.

I believe Frank's initial thoughts on the mini were to have rollers only a couple of inches long. But large diameter.

This would have been practical as many with hopper design and motor strength dont utilise the entire length of the rollers.

BUT, it would have been a weird looking mill. And that counts.

 

[nosco]

Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?

 

[Rocker1986]

No. Both rollers on all mashmaster minimills are driven, via the gears seen elsewhere in the thread. Note in the above picture one end of the rollers is not visible - that is the driven end!

End of story.

Actually on one photo both ends of the rollers are visible - I would guess in that picture that there is a gear guard on it and that's why the gears aren't visible.

I agree though, it's definitely odd. When I first bought my mill it worked as it does now, although I didn't use a drill on it then. It still didn't take a ******* hour to mill a few kg of grain, though. Maybe 15-20 minutes by hand. Then after 2 years or so it started to have problems, mainly with Maris Otter grains. Munich, Crystal, malts all went through fine still, as did the darker roasted grains. Pilsner malt was better than MO but still struggled a bit.

The replacement fluted roller has basically re-birthed it yeah. It worked terrific on today's brew day and the crush was excellent. Overshot my OG by 3 points too which was nice. Might have to adjust my Beersmith settings as this has happened on the last few batches that I have used a coarser crush on.

Can't fault the customer service from Frank at Mashmaster on this issue though, it's been bloody brilliant.

 

[butisitart]

you need to flip the mill upside down to see the gears. the top side has a guard, presumably to stop wayward grain from landing in the gear cogs and turning the mill into a hicupping loony bin.
still building a hopper for mine so haven't used it yet. and it's my first mill so can't compare it to pre-fluted days. would love to see hopper pics to get inspiration. i couldn't find one in ikea.

 

[Rocker1986]

I'm not even sure what I did with the gear guard from mine. The perspex hopper that originally came with it when I bought it has one on it though, so it's no issue when using the mill. Said hopper wouldn't fit on the mill with the metal gear guard in place anyway so I took it off and put it wherever it's currently hiding. But yes, it stops the grain getting into the gears, and also from going straight through the gap between the end of the knurled/fluted part and the gears themselves and not even getting crushed at all.

I'm waiting for the new hoppers to become available and I'll get one of them for it as they can hold more grain than the perspex ones.

 

[CmdrRyekr]

would love to see hopper pics to get inspiration. i couldn't find one in ikea.

Saw one a while ago that looks a decent size.
Mill Hopper by vortexau, on Flickr

Dunno the guy though.

 

[Zorco]

Yep. Sorry for confusion, if I said 'passive' earlier I meant the adjustable one which isn't *directly* driven. The adjustable roller is the one which needed the bushes to be ground down

Cheers; All good now. In Frank's email to me he called it a 'replacement non drive roller' which, combined with other posts/pics I'd shifted off track. Having both rollers driven was a key criteria for my choice.

I think you may be onto something there, I’ve been wondering this myself. Has anyone actually tried removing the gears so they have one driven and one passive roller?

When I replace my secondary roller with the fluted one I'll try and see if the gear separates.

Can't fault the customer service from Frank at Mashmaster on this issue though, it's been bloody brilliant.

+1. Emailed Frank 10:32pm tonight and received a reply at 10:59pm. First class.

 

[S.E]

When I replace my secondary roller with the fluted one I'll try and see if the gear separates.

The gears do separate, they are held in place with three small screws. I’ve just tried removing the gear from the non drive roller so my mill now has one driven and one passive roller.

Really surprised to find that grain won’t pass through the rollers at all now. It just rolls and bounces around on top of them. Had to open the gap up till the grain could almost fall through before it worked.

Needless to say the crush wasn’t adequate.