Kits Or Ag Cheaper? Pros/cons?

[Nick JD]

Simple Aussie Lagers are cheap as chips to make in AG.

4kg of grain is $8.50, 20g of PoR is 50c, reused lager yeast is maybe $1 ... some sugaz is 30c.

Cheaper than K&K.

 

[The Mad Hopper]

Might as well splurge and spend another 4 bucks on some flavour hops. It'll bring your brew up to $14.30 though, gettin' kinda pricey! :icon_cheers:

 

[Acasta]

where do u get your hops? i see POR for $1.10 per 10g

 

[under]

Buy in bulk. Simple. Its the cheapest way of buying ingredients.

Base Grain - $35-45 sack (Bulk Buy Rates)
Spec malt - By the sack if you find a recipe you like, or $5kg through the sponsors.
Reuse yeast - Yeast split into 5 batches $1 per brew, and you can reuse slurry making it cheaper. There is also yeast swaps between local brewers.
Hops - Imported from the states. I paid $105 for 5lbs to my door

The cost is in the gear.

KK vs AG - Well im a big fan of AG. Done right it can be as good if not better than Commercial swill. Better usually.

Keep things simple and you will produce great beer. Use adjuncts like rice/polenta/sugar and it will cut more costs and produce some bloody great drops.

My 2c

 

[Kevman]

Interesting.

I might have to look in on a brew day and see how an AG is done. It would be good to see an AG done on a "primitive or simpler" setup rather than a bells and whistles setup.

The only other cost that has to be factored in that people have forgotten about is time. KK takes about an hour maximum (with plenty of beer breaks). Kits and Bits takes about 1.5 to 2 hours. How long does AG take?

 

[Effect]

Cost me $1000 to start AG.

55 litre willow mashtun with BB falsie and other parts
50 litre keggle with BB hop screen
fridge with temp controller
grain mill
coopers starter kit (for all bits and bobs)
$300 worth of base grain, specialty grain, hops and yeast
bottles
burner
gas bottle
cubes


That is a lot more expensive than brewing K n K, but I can brew higher quality and any style from the beer spectrum. If you are after cheap grog, knk is fine, ottinger is fine. But if don't like paying $16 a four pack for micro beer that is on par to the beer you can pump out - get into AG and make your own style.

 

[Effect]

Interesting.

I might have to look in on a brew day and see how an AG is done. It would be good to see an AG done on a "primitive or simpler" setup rather than a bells and whistles setup.

The only other cost that has to be factored in that people have forgotten about is time. KK takes about an hour maximum (with plenty of beer breaks). Kits and Bits takes about 1.5 to 2 hours. How long does AG take?

my first few brew days were like 8 hours. I have got that down to 4.5 now. But you aren't active the whole time. About 2 hours of that you just walk away and relax - or do some jobs SWMBO gives you <_<

 

[Sammus]

im sick of people quoting stupidly low prices claiming that AG is cheaper to convert new AG brewers. Yes if you buy feed malt by the tonne and bitter with second hand soapy grey water you might be able to get prices as low as some of those quoted here, but I think looking at retail (eg G&Gs or CBs) malt/hop prices (including shipping) are a much more realistic place to start when doing price comparisons.

 

[petesbrew]

The savings really do come with buying your base malt grain by the sack - roughly half the cost compared to buying by the kilo (on a quick comparison off Daves Homebrew site @ nth Sydney)

Gearwise, it can be as simple as the Zapap bucket in bucket setup and a 19L pot from Big W. Roughly $50 worth.

Another comparison to take into account would be if you brewed a Belgian Blonde rather than a Carlton Draught clone.
Say your ingredients were $50 for 30 longnecks, that's still cheaper than buying an imported belgian (no, not stella) at $100+ per case.

edit: Honestly, once the bug's bitten for flavour, you stop wondering about the price.

 

[Bribie G]

Simple Aussie Lagers are cheap as chips to make in AG.

4kg of grain is $8.50, 20g of PoR is 50c, reused lager yeast is maybe $1 ... some sugaz is 30c.

Cheaper than K&K.

im sick of people quoting stupidly low prices claiming that AG is cheaper to convert new AG brewers. Yes if you buy feed malt by the tonne and bitter with second hand soapy grey water you might be able to get prices as low as some of those quoted here, but I think looking at G&Gs or CBs malt/hop prices (including shipping) are a much more realistic place to start when doing price comparisons.

I just ordered from CB 8kg of milled Galaxy Malt to do 2 brews, have jars of 189-s to use, so my two Pale lagers I'll be doing out of the order will be (each)

4kg BB Galaxy $11.20
.3 Carapils $1.60
Kilo of Aldi rice $1.50

30g whatever hops $2.80
part value for yest batch $1.50

Electricity for boil 80c

Just shy of $20. I could use da sugaz, leave out the carapils and drop it down to around $17 but my current recipe is currently entered into the BABBs annual comp as an Aussie, and I'm going to enter it into the State as well, so from experience I'm more than confident in the quality of the beer. Add a bit more malt and a more healthy hopping rate and you have the German Pils I'm entering likewise which would come out at around $26. In my kits n bits days I would often spend on a typical Morgans effort:

Can $14
BE2 $6
US-05 say $2 as I have always run for a few generations
Aroma Hops $3

So a $25 to $30 kits bits or partials brew worked out around the same as AG.

But as other posters say, you have to 'amortise' the initial cost of getting into it, which in my case was a $300 urn, a $40 bag and a $20 hopsock. Had all the other bits.

Edit: picking up from CB on this occasion, which helps the cost. Normally I try to get up to the 24 kilos and put in basically a grains only order with the odd hop and yeast, so that brings the freight down to around $1.50 a brew.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Cost me $1000 to start AG.

Agree with your points Phillip.

For me yes it was (and is) expensive to get setup for AG, however there is no reason that you need to buy everything at once and even a couple of equipment purchases can improve your brewing in the short term and also set you up for AG brewing in the future.

If it was me, I'd be breaking down the purchases as follows:

Checkpoint 1: Allows full size k&k or partial boils and potentially BIAB brews
Al or SS Pot and weldless tap
burner
gas bottle
cube(s)

Checkpoint 2: Allows 2v AG brew (heating sparge water in the kettle, storing in the cube till needed and batch sparging)
mashtun with false bottom and tap

Checkpoint 3: 3v AG brew allowing flexibility with sparging methods
HLT with tap

Checkpoint 4: Allows bulk purchase of grains
grain mill

I've only just reached checkpoint 4 and can assure you that the extra investment of time and money is absolutely worth it.

 

[Muggus]

I've found since i've got into the swing of AG, and accumulated a few bulk items, I can knock out a simple but tasty SMASH pale ale quite cheaply:
- 4.0kg Joe White Pilsner @ $3.00/kg - $12.00
- 65g Topaz hop pellets. Australia - Crop '09 (AA 16.2%) @ $0.09/g - $5.85
- Safale US-05 Dry ale yeast 11.5g - $6.50
= $24.35

For 24L of beer around the 5% mark at a bit of over $1/L, pretty good value. And you can split that yeast up, so it could be less if you wanted to make a larger or two batches.

 

[Katherine]

AG is alot more FUN!

 

[MarkBastard]

If you seriously only cared about the money you'd be probably best off buying 30 can blocks of VB when they're on special.

Home brew is never cheap from a total cost of ownership perspective if you don't enjoy it, and have to factor in an hourly rate to pay yourself to brew it.

The thing that makes it worthwhile is when you enjoy it.

 

[unrealeous]

If you seriously only cared about the money you'd be probably best off buying 30 can blocks of VB when they're on special.

If you seriously only cared about the money you'd give up drinking

Find your passion, and let it kill you.

 

[warra48]

AG is alot more FUN!

Oh yeah, I agree.

Don't forget the satisfaction you get from doing a brew totally from scratch, and having total control.
Designing your own recipe (ignore the style guidelines), weighing and milling the malts, manipulating your water, designing your mash and sparge schedule, making up your own hopping inputs, deciding boil length, building yeast starters to split a single pak (or harvested yeast) into several batches worth of yeasts, then deciding on your fermentation time and temperature.

For me, those things are the best bits of the hobby. The time involved is not that great, 5 to 6 hours once every 3 weeks or so. Plus, I'm retired, so time is not such a pressing issue. If I fire up the HLT at 6:00 am, I'm all done and dusted by lunchtime.

Never got that satisfaction from the few Kits and Extracts brews I did before going AG.

As for the expense, I just did deals with the family at Christmas, birthdays, and fathers' day, to get all to put in for some equipment to expand the brewery. I acquired a MillMaster, Tempmate, SS 3 piece tap, burner and adjustable regulator etc by that method.

And when you drink a beer that knocks your socks off, it gives you a glowing feeling knowing it's all your own work.
It's not the cheapest hobby to get into, but it's still less than the money I outlay for my golf membership and twice weekly comp fees.

 

[zebba]

I think I paid $1.80 a kilo for some pils malt in a recent bulk buy. So Nicks quote above is certainly not unrealistic.

I do question the value in including "reused" yeast in the equation (not just nick, many do it whenever this thread pops up). You don't need to be an AG brewer to reuse yeast, and many kit brewers throw out the kit yeast...

I think last brew I spent <$10 on hops, <$10 on grain and the yeast was a freebie (props to wolfy).

But I enjoy brewing. I couldn't care about the money.

 

[Fourstar]

But I enjoy brewing. I couldn't care about the money.

when you are paying 60 bucks for a case of little creatures and an absoulte maximum of 60 bucks on 2 cases worth of home brewed beer, any style of your choosing. you just cant lose!

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

A mate of mine reckons my frugality is legendary. That may be true, but even though I save money wherever I can I cannot say that I am saving money on beer. That's okay because that isn't why I brew.

I get my malt about as cheaply as I can by seeking out the best prices and using the power of buying in quantity. Sometimes I enjoy a windfall.
I'm growing my own hops, but I haven't seen a financial benefit there, yet. And, I can't get all the flavours I'm after, so will continue to buy hops. (Anyone know where I can buy an Ahtanum rhizome? )
I buy my propane gas in 45kg lots. My gas supplier enjoys my beer.
I will occasionally re-use a yeast if the planets align, but it generally is not worth the saving for me.

But... I have an actual brewery. Turning the cedar shed up the hill into a brew-house cost a lot of money.
I tinker. Anyone with that condition knows it costs money.

Most people will have to pay (near) full price for their equipment most of the time. You will get the occasional bargain, but the fact you can say this also means you're buying/accumulating stuff. As time passes, most people who make beer find themselves buying a filter, another fridge, a keg setup, a cpbf, another fridge, a *mumble*. Failing to take that into account is almost as big a mistake as ignoring energy and sanitation costs.

I brew. I like that I brew. Buying & making kits can result in good beer and I think over time it will be cheaper, but it is not brewing. I enjoy brewing.

If you want to brew, you will find a way to pay for it. If you want to make decent beer cheaply, you can do so with tins, a fermenter and a magican and the bits can just go on the shopping list for your SO to collect with the Nescafe, potato gems and dunny roll. (I use all three.)

 

[MarkBastard]

On another note, I've been brewing AG all year now but I had a leftover kit and so I put that down on the weekend.

It was a coopers stout kit + 500g of spec grains (steeped) + 1.5L LME + a packet of brew enhancer 2 + 20g hops.

I found the process to be extremely irritating and much harder and more stressful than AG.

I am so glad I have all that crap used now and I never intend to do kits / extracts / partials ever again. Anything that involves brewing in the kitchen f^% right off IMO.

In related news, don't try and mix brew enhancer 2 into an already thick wort. It'll turn into big chewy clumps of toffee.