Kits Or Ag Cheaper? Pros/cons?

[HoppingMad]

Once you're set up for AG which you can do cheaply

I 100% agree with this statement. Once you're set up.

Bear in mind that a basic kit set-up plus a few extras (like a capper and heating unit) will set you back $80-$120
An allgrain set-up can vary but if you go for something in stainless steel you are looking at close to $1000 when you factor in silicon hoses, taps, tools you'll use to make it. And that's not including extras like pumps and mills.

That said I can make a double batch pils style beer (40-45L) for around $18-$22) When you use a single grain or one base grain, then one specialty on top it works out very cheap (and especially when you bulk buy). When you get fancy with 3-5 hop schedules, and multiple grainbills of imported european malts it can take the cost of a small batch into the stratosphere.

So yep, per longneck All-grain beer is cheaper and better to drink than kit. But add the gear price to the equation and you have a real cost blowout. And then you would say kit wins on cheapness.

But as most here will tell you, it's for the love man - not the money.

Hopper.

 

[unrealeous]

... do some gardening or have a pull. It's not hands on every second.

No pun intended of course...

That's the second reference to white water wristing in this thread. So maybe it is true that most home brewers are just a pack of wankers. h34r:

 

[manticle]

You can get set up much cheaper than $1000

The setup is the most difficult and expensive part - however thinking laterally and being economical (if you need to be)

You can look at:

-BIAB
-Stovetop brewing
-2 or 3V brewing using an old esky, plumbing bits from a plumbing supply place (NOT BUNNINGS), a large stock pot from an Asian Grocer and a <$100 burner from a retailer and a gas bottle (or an immersion heater) and a no chill cube. Some people started AG brewing on stoves or existing barbecues, I used an existing weber.

Tools needed to make an esky tun with copper manifold include a hacksaw, shifter, vice and cordless drill and bits which many people either have access to or can purchase cheaply.

If you have $1000 to spend on getting set up to make good beer then go for it but you don't have to and if you don't have it you can still make good beer. Just use your nouse and be prepared to want to upgrade (which may mean spending later but it's like layby or small repayments with no interest).

@unrealous - I have no doubt about that. Ever had a drink with one of them?

 

[DU99]

Everyone to their own.if you want quality spend the $$$'s if you want crap spend little..even if people bought the equipment bit by bit..eventually you will end up with a good system

 

[praxis178]

Cost break down of my hobbies...

1. Sailing $15K for the 10footer plus $6K for new sails as required.
2. Flying $20K for the plane plus new skins for the wings (in transit from US) $3.5K
3. Gem cutting $3.5K for the machine plus "mumble" $$$$$$$ for the rough
4. Jewellery making ~$20K/year in metals and consumables
5. Brewing ~$250 for the AG kit last year, $840 for the kegging setup, ~$200 for malt in the past year

Spent today doing a double batch of Golden Ale plus a small batch of second runnings beer, so a full days brewing for ~$45.....

I guess it's all relative, but if it's fun and you enjoy not only the process but also the proceeds then what's the matter with you? Smile your having fun! :icon_cheers:

BTW at least SWMBO approves of hobbies 3 and 4, and like some of my lighter beers, so on the whole I'm in "profit".

 

[Nick JD]

My tiny little cheap gear gets used about once a week and makes on average 18L. I don't drink 18L per week, so I have no need to spend any more than the $30 I spent. Parts of it also get used to make cheese.

That said I admire those who have a thing for bling in brewing - brewing isn't my "bling" area (I spend lots on other hobbies) and I really don't want to be able to make 50L per week because I like variety in my Cupboard O' Beer.

BIAB, no-chill beers are at least as good as most expensive setup beers.

As always, YMMV.

 

[MarkBastard]

Gee you blokes have a lot of other hobbies including expensive ones.

My mates just go to the gym and stuff.

I am the most likely to do a hobby of the people I know and I spend maybe 2 grand a year in total on home brew and other DIY projects.

 

[manticle]

I spend 8 cents per month designing my own combs in MS paint.

 

[bum]

I spend 6 cents a month buying manticle's mspaint combs on eBay.

 

[QldKev]

he sells the rest to me for 3 cents, he's making a profit.

 

[gregs]

My tiny little cheap gear gets used about once a week and makes on average 18L. I don't drink 18L per week, so I have no need to spend any more than the $30 I spent. Parts of it also get used to make cheese.

That said I admire those who have a thing for bling in brewing - brewing isn't my "bling" area (I spend lots on other hobbies) and I really don't want to be able to make 50L per week because I like variety in my Cupboard O' Beer.

BIAB, no-chill beers are at least as good as most expensive setup beers.

As always, YMMV.

Is this from experienced tastings or off the top of your head?

 

[HoppingMad]

You can get set up much cheaper than $1000

The setup is the most difficult and expensive part - however thinking laterally and being economical (if you need to be)

Yep this is true. My statement about up to $1000 relates to getting 3 stainless pots (new they're around $300 each), taps and weldless fittings, along with a mash screen from a place like Grain & Grape - with a setup like that you wouldn't see much change from $1000.

But as Mants suggests, using an esky as a mash tun and using household pots can make it much cheaper.

For the real tightarse, the cheapest mash system I've ever seen is here:
Food Grade Buckets for Mashing System - $20

As others suggest - there is a swag of gear options - How low or high tech you want to go is up to you.

A couple of award-winning brewers I know use heated pots on their kitchen stove which they carry out to their garage to fill an esky with.
You've gotta find what works for you.

Hopper.

 

[bconnery]

he sells the rest to me for 3 cents, he's making a profit.

And everybody has a share...

(really hoping that makes sense to at least one person...)

 

[Nick JD]

Is this from experienced tastings or off the top of your head?

Judges results.

 

[Brewme]

I have once again thought about going AG but this time have decided to give it a go.

After reading this topic: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=36094 I am convinced this is the way to go for a beginner in AG.

Although it's referred to as BIAB, I can't see any difference.

Using an urn instead of the 3 vessel system with pumps, hoses, burners that sound like F-111 jets etc, is the way to go IMHO.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the two systems in producing a great brew?

The was I see it is:-

1. HLT (Urn heats/boils water)
2. Mash Tun or Esky with s, m, y, z shaped copper pipe, Tap (Urn with bag)
3. Boiler with gas burner (Urn boils liquids)

Only one unit to wash. That part I like

Now gotta read a few more threads for my ingredients.

 

[manticle]

Don't worry about the difference. Plenty of threads already discussing any differences - most seem to agree that in the final product there is little, if any. Both make all grain beer so just go with whichever makes sense for you.

 

[Phoney]

I am convinced this is the way to go for a beginner in AG.

:icon_cheers:

Go for it!

So long as you at least a few kit/extract brews under your belt and know the basics you'll be fine with this method & have no reason to upgrade for a long while to come....if ever.

enjoy!

 

[jakub76]

I got a thermometer for about $15 and metre of voile to try a BIAB after about 16 years on-off K&K brewing and a few months solid doing extracts. I did 1 BIAB before picking up an ebay esky for about $20, around $40 at Bunnings for plumbing, $85 at allquip for a 40L Aluminum kettle and a $60 2-ring burner with reg. So all told less than $250. I still use the stove top and my existing pots as HLT to heat my water - no biggie - in fact I save heaps on gas this way.

I harvest and re-use all of my yeast unless there's any sanitation worries or weird adjuncts. Depending on style and what's on hand I'll spend anywhere from $25-$60 dollars per AG batch - my system dials in 24 litres comfortably. I love having complete control over all of my ingredients, it might mean I need to buy 6 types of grains and 3 types of hops but I love that. I can tweak, substitute, design and create - I get a kick out of that. At the end of the day it's still less than half the cost of commercial beer and so much more fulfilling. Bias aside most of my home made AG beers are better or at least more interesting than what's readily available at the bottlo

 

[marksfish]

the main difference between biab and traditional systems in brewing is the brewer!

 

[scotteth]

If I can count the equipment and half spent bags of hops in the freezer as "assets" and the much better beer as "goodwill" then I'm miles ahead with the all grain option. If you're considering the balance in the bank account then I should've stuck with K & K. (having said that Kits and bits can really add up!)

I think the answer depends on what sort of commercial beer you'd drink, if the only consideration is something thats cheap and tastes like beer, then the woolies kits are the go for sure....