Kits Or Ag Cheaper? Pros/cons?

[ekul]

My last AG cost me around $17, including the postage to get the grains to me. I don't buy in bulk, i bought enough for two batches of coopers pale ale from craftbrewer and it was around $20 for the grain and 13 for the postage. Plus a little bit for the POR hops that i already had. And yeast was free because i reciultured it. ADmittedly its not a complex recipe but i've only just started so the simpler the better.

As for my setup it was pretty cheap too.

50L stainless steel pot $55 (AJ trading in the valley)
Ring burner $20
Swiss Voile $4 (have to buy some more today though as my sewing isn't very good)
Coffee Thermometer $12
immersion chiller/Copper coil (found it in the shed, was real dirty but i soaked it in vinegar overnight,it came up a treat!)

Plus the fermenter, fridge, temp controller, hydrometer, siphon but i needed that whether i was going to be making KnK or AG so i won't include all that stuff.

As a comparison my extract brews were probably a little more expensive than my AG

2 cans of LLME @ 12.95 each is $24.90
Dextrose -$3
Hops ~$2
Yeast ~free to 50c (i always reuse yeast many times!)

So all up around $30 a batch. I'm saving $10 a batch doing AG so it won't take me much time at all to 'recoup' my costs of the extra equipment. Thats not taking time into account. But I like brewing so extending my brewing time from one hour to five is a bonus for me
Although AG will end up being cheaper for me, it was not my reason for making the switch. There is alot more variety with grain when compared to extract. I also figured that my favourite beers are made with grain, so if i want to emulate them then i'm probably going to have to use grain as well. And it was also a new challenge.
After tasting my first Ag when it came out of the fermenter i know i have made the right choice. I've never had a beer taste that good out of the fermenter, can't wait for it to carb up!

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I'm a BIABer after about 12 years on and off Kit, K&K and then extract. So I had at least the concept of hop utilisation correct from extract.

I can see the reasons for using an urn for BIAB - to do a large lot of beer in one go and keep the heat on during mashing time - fantastic.

The only thing I can't justify is the cost. Well, more the fact that I just don't have money floating around to do it and the missus will notice if I come home with one/one gets delivered and immediately ask "how much?"

I do full size batches on the stove with 2 x 19L big w pots which cost me $19 and $12 bucks (2nd was on special). It is probably marginally more time consuming that using an urn, but time vs cost, it wins, IMO. But I understand not all have the same view.

I also do "experimental" batches (much like NickJD's BIAB guide) - this gives me the opportunity to:

1. Play with different ingredients, in different quantities and proportions and try to brew a number of different style beers (and using the 2 pots, i can do 2 batches at the same time of two different types of beers); and
2. I can accumulate a good variety of hops in the freezer - so I have more of a "library" of hop varieties, as I'll never use 90g worth of pellets in a 9L batch.

Horses for courses, but 2 pots on the stop hit the time vs beer vs cost thing perfectly and the beer is better than anything else I've produced.

 

[Acasta]

Does AG get rid of the 'Homebrew' taste? I tried an extract and i was better, but the malt flavor was still the same.

 

[Phoney]

Does AG get rid of the 'Homebrew' taste? I tried an extract and i was better, but the malt flavor was still the same.

Indeed. Try any microbrew from a bottle shop, that's what AG tastes like.

 

[jakub76]

Acasta - there was a recent thread about that 'homebrew flavour'. I think I get what you mean, that kit twang. I haven't experienced that in a long time now. You certainly don't get it with AG and I don't recall having that issue with extract, though my extract brews were always pretty sweet with a high FG.

Someone recently said that both the best beers he's ever tasted and the worst were homebrews. Just by going AG won't guarantee you awesome beer, but it certainly gives you the opportunity to make great beer.

50L stainless steel pot $55 (AJ trading in the valley)

ekul - really? $55 for 50 litre SS pot?!? That's awesome value - where's the store, which valley? Website? Phone number?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Acasta - there was a recent thread about that 'homebrew flavour'. I think I get what you mean, that kit twang. I haven't experienced that in a long time now. You certainly don't get it with AG and I don't recall having that issue with extract, though my extract brews were always pretty sweet with a high FG.

Someone recently said that both the best beers he's ever tasted and the worst were homebrews. Just by going AG won't guarantee you awesome beer, but it certainly gives you the opportunity to make great beer.


ekul - really? $55 for 50 litre SS pot?!? That's awesome value - where's the store, which valley? Website? Phone number?

+2, +1 on the "where is the pot, I want to buy it" and +1 on the first half.

I found that "home brew twang" disappeared when I went AG. I had the same yeast handling and very good sanitisation when doing extract (pretty anal, in fact), as well as AG, so it wasn't that.

I would do some research on the way temperature affects mashing. When I was doing extract, I steeped grains, but I know now that the temp was probably a little on the high side, which might have contributed to twang. I have no empirical proof for it, just a gut feeling.

Paying attention to temp control is important for AG, even BIAB (or especially so). I calculate my mash temp range, and then strike temp from that, and then monitor strike temp religiously, until I get it.

My AG beers are even better than my extract beers, and I made reasonably good extract beers. I think 1 aspect was the ingredient change (grain over goo and better hop utilising) and the other was better temp control.

 

[ekul]

AJ's trading in the fortitude valley brisbane. Its a chinese shop with herbs i think.
They have bigger ones too, i think they're 80L for $70. And then even bigger then that as well.
My sister bought the 50L one for me when she was down there so i don't exactly know where the shop is besides in the valley somewhere.
I wanted the bigger pot but she didn't have room in her car. Next time...

 

[Bribie G]

Now I've done all my comp brews (I'm not even considering the Nationals yet, I'll cross that bridge if I'm fortunate enough to come to it ) I can now settle down and brew solely for my own pleasure, and I've decided to perfect my ideal quaffer. It's basically a "Historical" Aussie Lager crossed with a German Pils so it will not be as heavy in malt as a Pils but will have more hop character than an Aussie, and more bitter.

So I've picked up enough Grain and yeasts from Ross at the weekend to do eight brews in a row, to play around with my 'style' and have a stack of hops in the freezer I need to wade through. The basic recipe I'll be working around is:

4000 Galaxy = 8.36
330 Carapils = 1.60
1000 Rice = 1.50 from ALDI, maybe cheaper in a 10 k bag I dunno.

Hops = 5.00 average, and I've still got some Chinese Saaz that actually makes a good lager bitterer. We won't talk about the aroma :lol:
S-189 yeast = $1.40 - I have bought a twin pack and will use over 8 brews

So that works out around $18.00 and is more or less in line with what others have posted, and around the same price as a batch using a Coopers kit, (edit: a kilo of LDME or BE )some extra hops and spec grains and a better yeast. I haven't factored in 'consumables' such as finings, Polyclar, Starsan etc as these would be the same anyway.

As Nick posted on a previous page I could easily pare this back to 4000 galaxy, 600 sugar and 30g of some hop and still produce something drinkable for around $12 but I'm doing it for my pleasure not to make cheap ethanol :icon_cheers:

 

[Acasta]

Yeah im not going to cheap ethanol either, im doing AG for the improvement in beer, to get rid of the HB taste and do some good recipe.

Someone mentioned before to try some micro brews, where i can i find them? I live around the corner from Dans, but i have no idea. I tend to get Little Creatures, James squire, White Rabbit and that type of stuff.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Yeah im not going to cheap ethanol either, im doing AG for the improvement in beer, to get rid of the HB taste and do some good recipe.

Someone mentioned before to try some micro brews, where i can i find them? I live around the corner from Dans, but i have no idea. I tend to get Little Creatures, James squire, White Rabbit and that type of stuff.

Dan's generally. I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in brisbane all the stores (I live between 3 stores) have undergone a signficant change, in that they now have moved a considerable amount of craft beers into the fridges and reduced alcopop fridge space.

Mildura brewery, knappstein, ballarat beer, barons, snowy mountain (barons as well) and a considerable number of others (this is off memory at work) are there.

My other tip? Look at the labels, as often they will tell you what hops or give enough of the malt information to guess. Mildura's Stormy Cloud Ale is how I first learned to recogise Amarillo and I picked up another beer the other day, immediately realised the amarillo, googled it and I was right. Knappstein's reserve lager is the only commercial beer I have found that uses Nelson Sauvin hops (there may be others, I just haven't found them yet), which are one of my fave hops (and Ross at CB's NS Lager introduced me to them).

You can learn a great deal about hops in particular from the labels.

 

[white.grant]

And everybody has a share...

(really hoping that makes sense to at least one person...)

Yes it does.

Want to buy some chocolate coated cotton?

 

[Nick JD]

As Nick posted on a previous page I could easily pare this back to 4000 galaxy, 600 sugar and 30g of some hop and still produce something drinkable for around $12 but I'm doing it for my pleasure not to make cheap ethanol :icon_cheers:

I'll send you a couple of hundred grams of supurb PoR, gratis, if you throw away those Chinese hops.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I'll send you a couple of hundred grams of supurb PoR, gratis, if you throw away those Chinese hops.

Dunno which is worse?

 

[Nick JD]

Dunno which is worse?

PoR is a great hop. Aussie Lagers are made with an extract of PoR - use the real thing and it's nicer because it's got that PoR taste ... but hoppy, not isohoppy.

 

[felten]

Yeah im not going to cheap ethanol either, im doing AG for the improvement in beer, to get rid of the HB taste and do some good recipe.

Someone mentioned before to try some micro brews, where i can i find them? I live around the corner from Dans, but i have no idea. I tend to get Little Creatures, James squire, White Rabbit and that type of stuff.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...;showarticle=37

oh and since you're local, try kooinda, they stock it at the old england and greensborough bottle-O and tons of other places... cant check though the website is still in the works