KegLand Questions and Answers

[MashBasher]

So are any of you guys going to try no chill and fermenting in these things? Maybe 19-20L wort leave it in the milk crate, add dry yeast and a blow off when it cools. Then siphon to a keg when finished.

So, in the mid-early 90s I bought my Dad a Coopers starter kit to get him to try home brewing.

The kit consisted of a can, some malt extract/dextrose and (relevant bit) a bladder to ferment in. The airlock as I recall was a pinhole in the closure.

To this day (he’s 84 now and still brewing) he swears it’s the best one he ever made.

 

[kadmium]

So are any of you guys going to try no chill and fermenting in these things? Maybe 19-20L wort leave it in the milk crate, add dry yeast and a blow off when it cools. Then siphon to a keg when finished.

Such a waste of plastic and destruction of our environment for single use plastic bags when there are more than adequate hot cubes and fermenters. Kegland and those looking to use these as an everyday disposable should be ashamed. Not sarcastic, 100% offence intended. We don't have enough of an issue with people calling PET fermenters that get used for 2 years a waste, now we're going to **** up the planet so people can save a little extra washing?

 

[Nullnvoid]

Such a waste of plastic and destruction of our environment for single use plastic bags when there are more than adequate hot cubes and fermenters. Kegland and those looking to use these as an everyday disposable should be ashamed. Not sarcastic, 100% offence intended. We don't have enough of an issue with people calling PET fermenters that get used for 2 years a waste, now we're going to **** up the planet so people can save a little extra washing?

What about all the people that buy Fresh Wort Kits and then just throw out the cubes?

There are also many different reasons why these would be best use over a traditional cube.

 

[Coalminer]

Wasn't all that long ago that FWK's came with a $10 deposit on the empty cube

 

[kadmium]

What about all the people that buy Fresh Wort Kits and then just throw out the cubes?

There are also many different reasons why these would be best use over a traditional cube.

HDPE cubes are recyclable. Wether or not they actually get recycled or the government just sends them to the landfill or ships them to China is a different debate

I just think it's a shame that with climate change and the way plastics are destroying what's left of the environment people are moving to single use plastic bags for minor convenience. It's shameful. Kegland should have some corporate responsibility and those buying them should think about the impact on the environment.

Ok, perhaps keeping a stash for no chill emergencies if you're not usually a no chiller perhaps. But that's still not really a reason in my opinion when considered against the environmental impacts.

Don't forget no chill came about because of water restrictions. I was around when it first started to gain legs on this forums when the debate regarding water use vs giving yourself botulism was raging.

Yes, no chill is a great way to save water which is a diminishing asset world wide, however going to single use bags negates or worsens that impact. End of rant.

 

[Bourkie]

No worries. We will investigate the 12V model options. This will be a bit more expensive as the 12v/240v compressors with suitable controller do add about $60 to the cost. So the standard 240 only model might be about $300 and the 12v/240v model would be about $360 or something like that.

Would definitely spend the extra money for the 12/240v solution!!!!

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Such a waste of plastic and destruction of our environment for single use plastic bags when there are more than adequate hot cubes and fermenters. Kegland and those looking to use these as an everyday disposable should be ashamed. Not sarcastic, 100% offence intended. We don't have enough of an issue with people calling PET fermenters that get used for 2 years a waste, now we're going to **** up the planet so people can save a little extra washing?

Thanks for that. I firstly should say that these bladders are washable and I have used one three times already so I am not sure why you would need to throw it out unless you wanted to. It probably will not last as long as one of these plastic 20L cubes.

If you really want to compare the environmental aspect I think it's important to look at the numbers.

The bladders are made from 85grams of plastic
The 20L plastic cubes are made from 1150grams of plastic.

Even if you did throw away the bladder after a single use you can at least be comfortable knowing that you have used 13-14 times less plastic than manufacturing a 20L plastic cube. Based on the number of plastic cubes that we sell I don't think we have every customer using every 20L plastic cube on average more than 13-14 times. So just be aware that the cube is only better if re-use it more than 13 times.

With that said many home brewers do sadly leave the hobby as they do not have that much time to brew beer. Time is the largest casualty in this hobby and when customers stop home brewing and move to commercially purchased beer in bottles or cans. If you compare the 85grams of plastic used in one of these bladders it's far less than what 20L of commercial packaging uses in plastic, cardboard, stretch wrap, glass, labels, glue etc. So if you need disposable bladders to save time and keep you in a hobby I would say it's still orders of magnitude better than purchasing beer at the bottle shop.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Would definitely spend the extra money for the 12/240v solution!!!!

It seems like this is the general consensus so we will continue to develop the product with a 12vDC/240VAC option in that case. Given that people will use this for camping etc and be using it off-grid battery situation we will also make sure it's very electrically efficient. We will probably use one of the Danfoss/Secop Compressors.

 

[Ferment8]

It seems like this is the general consensus so we will continue to develop the product with a 12vDC/240VAC option in that case. Given that people will use this for camping etc and be using it off-grid battery situation we will also make sure it's very electrically efficient. We will probably use one of the Danfoss/Secop Compressors.

Well insulated too would be good. If be using in North west Australia. Temps easily 40+

 

[onemorecell]

Thanks for that. I firstly should say that these bladders are washable and I have used one three times already so I am not sure why you would need to throw it out unless you wanted to. It probably will not last as long as one of these plastic 20L cubes.

Any trick to washing them? Or just fill up with water + sod perc same as a cube, rinse then bit of star san for storage?

I normally fill my cube all the way up, but I guess with the bags you wouldn't need to do that, and you'd still cover all the surface area...

 

[S.E]

Thanks for that. I firstly should say that these bladders are washable and I have used one three times already so I am not sure why you would need to throw it out unless you wanted to. It probably will not last as long as one of these plastic 20L cubes.

If you really want to compare the environmental aspect I think it's important to look at the numbers.

The bladders are made from 85grams of plastic
The 20L plastic cubes are made from 1150grams of plastic.

Even if you did throw away the bladder after a single use you can at least be comfortable knowing that you have used 13-14 times less plastic than manufacturing a 20L plastic cube. Based on the number of plastic cubes that we sell I don't think we have every customer using every 20L plastic cube on average more than 13-14 times. So just be aware that the cube is only better if re-use it more than 13 times.

With that said many home brewers do sadly leave the hobby as they do not have that much time to brew beer. Time is the largest casualty in this hobby and when customers stop home brewing and move to commercially purchased beer in bottles or cans. If you compare the 85grams of plastic used in one of these bladders it's far less than what 20L of commercial packaging uses in plastic, cardboard, stretch wrap, glass, labels, glue etc. So if you need disposable bladders to save time and keep you in a hobby I would say it's still orders of magnitude better than purchasing beer at the bottle shop.

@KegLand-com-au Have you tried no chill and fermenting in these things? Say about 19-20L wort leave the bladder in the milk crate, add dry yeast and a blow off when it cools. Then siphon to a keg when finished. Even more environmentally friendly and timesaving if you don’t need to clean and sanitise a seperate fermenter.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Any trick to washing them? Or just fill up with water + sod perc same as a cube, rinse then bit of star san for storage?

I normally fill my cube all the way up, but I guess with the bags you wouldn't need to do that, and you'd still cover all the surface area...

Sodium Percarbonate or PBW is a good idea but with that said when I re-used them I just washed out with water and leave a small amount of Stellarsan in the bladder until I use it next.

I should say the more you fill them the longer it takes to cool down. I filled one of them with only 15L and then dunked this in ice water and it cooled down really fast. If you really want to fill to the absolute max you can fill them up to 30L but it's like a balloon and it's going to take longer to cool down.

Next time I use the bladders I think I will try just filling them up to 10L each then then giving them a dunk in cold water and see how much faster I can cool them like this. Would be keen to hear of anyone else who have been measuring the cooling speed too as I think this might end up being quite a cost efficient and low tech cooling method for people that don't want to fork out for an immersion chiller or counter flow chiller.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Any trick to washing them? Or just fill up with water + sod perc same as a cube, rinse then bit of star san for storage?

I normally fill my cube all the way up, but I guess with the bags you wouldn't need to do that, and you'd still cover all the surface area...

Wait, what? You fill your cubes all the way up when cleaning or sanitising or both?

I only sodium perc all the way to the top if it is absolutely filthy!

 

[Ballaratguy]

Well insulated too would be good. If be using in North west Australia. Temps easily 40+

40’s. Geez that’s a cool day. I worked south west of pt headland and it was often over 50

 

[Ferment8]

40’s. Geez that’s a cool day. I worked south west of pt headland and it was often over 50

True! But I'm picking my time and on the beach lol

 

[Ferment8]

You just quoted they are reusable. Get a grip mate.

 

[onemorecell]

Wait, what? You fill your cubes all the way up when cleaning or sanitising or both?

I only sodium perc all the way to the top if it is absolutely filthy!

what do you do, just a little bit and shake it round?

i fill them up and let them sit there and think about what they've done for a day or so (or a couple of weeks...)

 

[Nullnvoid]

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/how-long-do-fwks-last.102135/post-1557335
View attachment 119362

Perhaps, stay in your lane.

To be fair, this was in August before they were released. He has stated today that he reuses them.

Distilled down:

He said one thing before they were released, and now says something else.

 

[onemorecell]

Any chance of getting in Samba hops and the Pink Boots 2020? (Pink Boots Blend | Yakima Chief Hops)

Also would love more cryo anything you can get. Holy **** it makes beer good.

 

[philrob]

OK, that's enough about re-use or single use. Let's just leave it at that, and agree to disagree if that's your thing.