Kaixin Pumps

[SBOB]

Question for the electrically minded Brewers,
Could the flow be reversed by "reversing the polarity" to the motor or whatever it's called when you make an electric motor spin the opposite direction by switching the active/neutral?
Just thinking of the above for recirc/sparge application.

what DJ_L3ThAL said..

but whats the difference in your recirc to your sparge direction of flow.
Unless you are doing recirc up through the mash, liquid is still coming from 'somewhere' and going into the top of the grain bed. just use a valve to change where this liquid is coming from between mash and sparge

 

[Benn]

Reason is pretty much what you described SBOB, recirc up through the grain bed then sparge in reverse.
My thought was to reduce plumbing by reversing the direction of the pump ideally with a rocker switch or something so it's all nice and neat. I've got the head off the pump and DJ is correct, the impeller appears to be designed to run in one direction.
I'm still curious about reversing the flow and see if it works.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

DJ is correct with the impeller configuration and you can't reverse a single phase pump unless you reverse the brushes, if it has brushes in that pump.

 

[lael]

Even if you could it wouldn't work. The pump works on centrifugal force to move the fluid from the center to the outside. Reversing the direction of the impeller would still cause the same action, but would reduce efficiecy as the outlet is designed for the fluid to exit in the opposite direction.

 

[Benn]

I have some results,
I switched the active & neutral around and the motor rotated in an Anti Clockwise direction regardless so that's the end of that one I guess.

Side note,
When I had the rear cover off to see if I could switch the A/N there, I saw the earth wire was nearly cut through by a little tab thing on the cover, (I'm trying to point to it in the photo with the red handle of an O-ring pick) I melted the tab slightly with a soldering iron and cleaned it up with a Stanley knife so now it doesn't press against the earth wire.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Side note,
When I had the rear cover off to see if I could switch the A/N there, I saw the earth wire was nearly cut through by a little tab thing on the cover, (I'm trying to point to it in the photo with the red handle of an O-ring pick) I melted the tab slightly with a soldering iron and cleaned it up with a Stanley knife so now it doesn't press against the earth wire.

image.jpeg

Sparkies out there, I know you are watching... Is the way that Earth is mounted fully compliant? Looks like the washer scratching the surface has not really done so and should they have sandpapered down to the bare metal before assembling the Earth to the pump housing to ensure good continuity?

 

[fraser_john]

Sparkies out there, I know you are watching... Is the way that Earth is mounted fully compliant? Looks like the washer scratching the surface has not really done so and should they have sandpapered down to the bare metal before assembling the Earth to the pump housing to ensure good continuity?

I am no sparky DJ_L3ThAL, but the earth is probably more via contact the screw makes with the body thread, rather than the contact with the washer.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hmm, interesting as most industrial electrical work I've seen with Earth straps and cables involved some surface preparation/scuffing underneath where the flat face of the bolt/screw sits as thinking about it this provides the largest amount of contact area. Threads are not always in full contact, so unsure they can be deemed sufficient in continuity. Just interested to hear if these chinese products clearly disregard Aus wiring and consumer product electrical standards.

 

[fraser_john]

<snip> Just interested to hear if these chinese products clearly disregard Aus wiring and consumer product electrical standards.

hehe "if"

 

[takai]

The majority of domestic equipment is earthed in the same fashion.

 

[Benn]

How do these pumps cope with viscosity? What sort of wort vs grain ratio are people pumping i.e 3:1/ 4:1/ 5:1 etc?

 

[Tahoose]

I'm at least 4:1 or higher maybe even 6:1 sometimes.

 

[MastersBrewery]

How do these pumps cope with viscosity? What sort of wort vs grain ratio are people pumping i.e 3:1/ 4:1/ 5:1 etc?

You do understand that the grain doesn't go through the pump, yes commercial breweries transfer the entire mash in some cases, but I've yet to see a HB one that does.

 

[takai]

You do understand that the grain doesn't go through the pump, yes commercial breweries transfer the entire mash in some cases, but I've yet to see a HB one that does.

This.

As an aside mine has been down to 2.5:1 on a really big mash. Viscosity wasn't an issue on that brew.... knocking it off the stool and breaking a hose fitting on the other hand...

 

[Benn]

You do understand that the grain doesn't go through the pump, yes commercial breweries transfer the entire mash in some cases, but I've yet to see a HB one that does.

Thanks MB,
No I don't think I'll attempt to pump grain as well as wort with one of these little beauties
Takai answered my question I think.
To try and clarify, I'm yet to brew an All Grain batch but from what I've read I'm of the understanding that the less water in the mash the "thicker" the wort is? My question was how do the Kaixen pumps fair with "thicker" mashs? Do they Labour, overheat, make funny noises etc. but if Takai is recirculating 2.5:1 (grain to water ratio) with no worries then it sounds like it's all good.
Hopefully I'm making sense.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Thanks MB,
No I don't think I'll attempt to pump grain as well as wort with one of these little beauties
Takai answered my question I think.
To try and clarify, I'm yet to brew an All Grain batch but from what I've read I'm of the understanding that the less water in the mash the "thicker" the wort is? My question was how do the Kaixen pumps fair with "thicker" mashs? Do they Labour, overheat, make funny noises etc. but if Takai is recirculating 2.5:1 (grain to water ratio) with no worries then it sounds like it's all good.
Hopefully I'm making sense.

The water to grain ratio more relates to compaction issues not the gravity of the wort. I have no doubt the pump would handle 1200+ SG. Most run their mash between 3:1 and 5:1, reasons for this are about efficiency and stuck sparge(on the low side) and tannin extraction (on the high side). I've run 15kg of of malt in my large malt pipe; I have a BM clone so the pump is working against gravity to push the wort through the grain, this was with the outlet ball valve half closed without issue. And the malt large pipe will probably take 22kg of malt @ 3:1 happy days

 

[Benn]

Appreciate the replies, thanks Brewers

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Thinking of upgrading at the moment purely to have threaded outlets on my pumps, to eliminate the difficulty in fitting a stiff camlock (mine appear to be fiddly due to the flexible hose not allowing strength to push against).

Anyway what are those with the plastic pump heads experience with just running camlock male fittings off of them and no ball valve? Do the plastic pump heads hold up to putting female camlocks on and off easily or can they still break like with those using a pump on the end?

• 
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[MastersBrewery]

Thinking of upgrading at the moment purely to have threaded outlets on my pumps, to eliminate the difficulty in fitting a stiff camlock (mine appear to be fiddly due to the flexible hose not allowing strength to push against).

Anyway what are those with the plastic pump heads experience with just running camlock male fittings off of them and no ball valve? Do the plastic pump heads hold up to putting female camlocks on and off easily or can they still break like with those using a pump on the end?

• 
• 

The plastic threads can be ify, I'd grab the KK mkII and stainless head.

 

[mofox1]

Full pint has the ss heads on sale... bummed because I just bought two at keg King, and the saving at FP for the heads alone would have covered the postage .