• We have implemented the ability to gift someone a Supporting Membership now! When you access the Upgrade page there is now a 'Gift' button. Once you click that you can enter a username to gift an account Upgrade to. Great way to help support this forum plus give some kudos to anyone who has helped you.

Info Sought For Aerating Wort

Aussie Home Brewer

Help Support Aussie Home Brewer:

Bats

Well-Known Member
Joined
18/11/10
Messages
295
Reaction score
14
I'm planning on buying a cheap fish tank aerator to begin aerating my wort prior to pitching.

Without confusing me with chemistry type terms etc, can someone advise on how long I should aerate my wort using this method?

Also, is there a certain type and micron air stone I should use?
 

Yob

Hop to it
Joined
14/11/09
Messages
15,036
Reaction score
6,410
Location
Ringwood, Melbourne
From what I understand you wont get more that 8ppm (ed: or was it 4?) via that route which is the same as shaking / whisking etc..

You need an oxygen tank and an airstione to get up to 12ppm (1 micron or am I getting that confused with filters)

What is it that you arent getting with your current methods? Pleanty of people do aerate, I was reading something the other day about 1/3 pitching rates with propper aeration, but it's a serious investment in kit and time, dunno if I could be arsed myself (*Yet)

Plenty of topics to read through Search Linky

The brewing network also have a podcast thingy on aeration I believe (from memory) which is well worth a listen, hang on a sec... HERE

Yob

ed: Damn now Im going to have to listen to that again myself ;)
 

chalky

Well-Known Member
Joined
20/11/08
Messages
104
Reaction score
9
Location
Inner East Melbourne
Whitelabs ran some experiments to determine how much oxygen a 20L batch of beer needed.

The results showed that to reach the desired 8-10ppm of Oxygen you would need to use pure oxygen for 60 seconds.

Vigorously shaking for 5 minutes led to 2.71ppm.

They also found that wort samples around 3 and 5 ppm of oxygen did not attenuate as fully as properly oxygenated samples.

Summary: Spend your dollars once and get some pure oxygen.


I'm planning on buying a cheap fish tank aerator to begin aerating my wort prior to pitching.

Without confusing me with chemistry type terms etc, can someone advise on how long I should aerate my wort using this method?

Also, is there a certain type and micron air stone I should use?
 

iralosavic

Well-Known Member
Joined
17/10/11
Messages
1,131
Reaction score
21
Whitelabs ran some experiments to determine how much oxygen a 20L batch of beer needed.

The results showed that to reach the desired 8-10ppm of Oxygen you would need to use pure oxygen for 60 seconds.

Vigorously shaking for 5 minutes led to 2.71ppm.

They also found that wort samples around 3 and 5 ppm of oxygen did not attenuate as fully as properly oxygenated samples.

Summary: Spend your dollars once and get some pure oxygen.
Shaking/manual aeration vs pond pump+airstone is a moot point. The latter is a waste of money.

The Yankees are big on injecting pure oxygen into their wort, but they have better access to the equipment for a lot less $. Unless you're specifically trying to fix a problem you're having with under=attenuation, I wouldn't bother at all. Spend your money on a stir plate and some DME instead.
 

felten

Homebrew Conjecturist
Joined
13/5/09
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
45
Whitelabs ran some experiments to determine how much oxygen a 20L batch of beer needed.

The results showed that to reach the desired 8-10ppm of Oxygen you would need to use pure oxygen for 60 seconds.

Vigorously shaking for 5 minutes led to 2.71ppm.

They also found that wort samples around 3 and 5 ppm of oxygen did not attenuate as fully as properly oxygenated samples.

Summary: Spend your dollars once and get some pure oxygen.
A little different to what wyeast say. If you watch the video here, at some point the bloke says 45sec of shaking will get you 8ppm.
 

davo4772

Well-Known Member
Joined
20/1/10
Messages
197
Reaction score
3
Bit of mixed info out there. The recent
(At 26mins) floating around reckon 45 secs of shaking the fermenter will get you close to 8ppm.

Confusing as White labs info would be reliable I would think.


Edit: ^^^^^^^ Beaten to it
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BlackRat

Well-Known Member
Joined
28/2/12
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
Whitelabs ran some experiments to determine how much oxygen a 20L batch of beer needed.

The results showed that to reach the desired 8-10ppm of Oxygen you would need to use pure oxygen for 60 seconds.

Vigorously shaking for 5 minutes led to 2.71ppm.

They also found that wort samples around 3 and 5 ppm of oxygen did not attenuate as fully as properly oxygenated samples.

Summary: Spend your dollars once and get some pure oxygen.
Where do people buy Oxygen?
 

Yob

Hop to it
Joined
14/11/09
Messages
15,036
Reaction score
6,410
Location
Ringwood, Melbourne
While we are on this topic, I pitched 2 cubes last night, Rinsed US-05 to both, (75ml each to 1053ish Worts)

Now I generally whisk the shit out of them till my arm is gunna drop off, I usually get flecks and a fine krausen overnight and this was the case this morning with both of them. If I can see it's kicked off I generally dont bother with extra aeration and just let it run it's course, finishing gravity's generally 1.008-1.010 so attenuation isnt a problem.....

so is there any benifit to giving it a second go tonight when I get home? (under 24 hrs)

Yob
 

Bats

Well-Known Member
Joined
18/11/10
Messages
295
Reaction score
14
Cheers guys.

I'm still trying to work out wether it's worth the bother or not.

I knew buying pure oxygen would be pricey but I remember reading somewhere that aerating with a fish tank aerator for about 15 minutes gives you the same result of pure oxygen for 1 minute.

I did hear that shaking the crap out of your wort still doesn't give you the desired ppm.

I would be interested to hear from anyone that uses a fish tank aerator and air stone to aerate their wort. I need pros and cons to help make up my mind.
 

QldKev

Brew Dude
Joined
21/6/05
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
1,030
Location
Bundy
Read this

www.brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

:p



QldKev
 

bum

Not entitled to an opinion
Joined
19/2/09
Messages
11,585
Reaction score
909
Shaking/manual aeration vs pond pump+airstone is a moot point. The latter is a waste of money.
If the second statement were true it would render the first false. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Regardless, it costs less than $50 to set up an air pump and airstone. This sort of money most certainly would not be wasted for anyone who isn't able/couldn't be stuffed to pick up a full batch and wave it around like they just don't care.

You don't want one? Fine, but when you're suggesting that the results are same (and acceptable) with both methods you can't also suggest one is pointless. Unless you think you're able to impose your motivations/abject tight-arsedness on others.

OP, assuming sanitation is up to scratch, an airstone/pump will improve the environment for your yeasties over doing nothing at all. As for time, Palmer recommends an hour but doesn't talk about airstone grade - might alter with which micron stone you get..
 

Wolfy

Well-Known Member
Joined
18/12/08
Messages
3,872
Reaction score
64
Location
Melbourne
Without confusing me with chemistry type terms etc, can someone advise on how long I should aerate my wort using this method?

Also, is there a certain type and micron air stone I should use?
As you have noticed from this thread, there is no set or even scientific answer.

In terms of simply shaking the fermentor, the Yeast book has a table which indicates that shaking the fermentor for 5 mins only provides a fraction of the O2 required, yet the link above suggests that 45seconds is enough. There is even less scientific type data to suggest how long you should use an air-pump and air stone for - however it does save your back from vicarious fermentor shaking - and I'd suggest - is a better aeration method than paint-stirrers and the like.

I have a 2micron stainless 'air stone' from KegKing and they also sell medical grade 'inline' filters - which is also something you should use or make yourself (Eg: a tube with cotton-wool).
I'd suggest an aeration time of 'several minutes' would be at least equal or better than shaking the fermentor for a similar duration.
 

chalky

Well-Known Member
Joined
20/11/08
Messages
104
Reaction score
9
Location
Inner East Melbourne
My Source is pages pp78-81 of the Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff book on Yeast. Brewers Publications 2010.

A little different to what wyeast say. If you watch the video here, at some point the bloke says 45sec of shaking will get you 8ppm.
 

SJW

As you must brew, so you must drink
Joined
10/3/04
Messages
3,401
Reaction score
211
I think you would be better off sinking your cash into cooling your wort closer to pitching temps, as whatever method u use to aerate, when its cooler, the wort will be better able to absorb oxygen. I cool to pitching temps and just drain the BM straight into the fermenter from about 1m high. This appears to aerate enough and will leave me with a good 200mm of foam on top.
I have a S/S air stone and pump but dont use anymore due to risk of infection.

Steve
 

Bribie G

Adjunct Professor
Joined
9/6/08
Messages
19,838
Reaction score
4,391
For many UK styles you can oxygenate twice by double dropping. I've done this a few times, and will try it again in the Winter when I can just start the fermentation off on the bench in my 25L FV, leave overnight and do the drop in the morning into a 30L FV then whack it in the ferm fridge. I'm tempted to try it with a lager and see how it goes, as lager yeasts have high oxygen requirements.

double dropping.

The principle behind double dropping is that the yeast removes most of the oxygen during the lag phase. By double dropping you can add that extra hit of oxygen to allow the yeast to breed up to healthy levels, as well as leaving behind proteins, hop debris and other shyte that end up on the bottom of the primary fermenter during the overnight rest. Fullers did it till recently and so do Wychwood. Coopers did it in their old brewery I read for sure (can't find source ATM) - they used Jarrah wood puncheons whatever a puncheon is for the primary ferm.
 

iralosavic

Well-Known Member
Joined
17/10/11
Messages
1,131
Reaction score
21
For many UK styles you can oxygenate twice by double dropping. I've done this a few times, and will try it again in the Winter when I can just start the fermentation off on the bench in my 25L FV, leave overnight and do the drop in the morning into a 30L FV then whack it in the ferm fridge. I'm tempted to try it with a lager and see how it goes, as lager yeasts have high oxygen requirements.

double dropping.

The principle behind double dropping is that the yeast removes most of the oxygen during the lag phase. By double dropping you can add that extra hit of oxygen to allow the yeast to breed up to healthy levels, as well as leaving behind proteins, hop debris and other shyte that end up on the bottom of the primary fermenter during the overnight rest. Fullers did it till recently and so do Wychwood. Coopers did it in their old brewery I read for sure (can't find source ATM) - they used Jarrah wood puncheons whatever a puncheon is for the primary ferm.
Interesting. I suppose for those out there with an oxygen cylinder, they'd just squirt another burst through the airlock the next day.
 

Markbeer

Well-Known Member
Joined
21/4/11
Messages
1,005
Reaction score
307
I think the real advantage of airstones is if you do huge batches, and shaking or stirring over 60 litres may be less practical, depending on your fermenter of course.

You can re-aerate after 8 hours of lag time after pitching and I have done it a number of times to get more oxygen in.
 

stux

Hacienda Brewhaus
Joined
15/12/09
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
310
I think the real advantage of airstones is if you do huge batches, and shaking or stirring over 60 litres may be less practical, depending on your fermenter of course.

You can re-aerate after 8 hours of lag time after pitching and I have done it a number of times to get more oxygen in.
that.

I'm getting sick of beating the crap out of the wort with a spoon. May try a whisk next time :)

FWIW I can definately tell the difference between no aeration, and spoon/whisk aeration.
 
2

Latest posts

Top