Info Sought For Aerating Wort

[SJW]

Hey, I like the Double Dropping method. I wonder why they only did/do it with Ales? I can't see why the same method would not work with Lager yeast too.

 

[Lecterfan]

Hey, I like the Double Dropping method. I wonder why they only did/do it with Ales? I can't see why the same method would not work with Lager yeast too.

Since BribieG posted about it yonks ago I have regularly done it with certain yeasts and certain beers. It is fantastic for big beers. I did it yesterday with an OG 1.072 beer with fresh wy1084 that I washed from trub, manual aeration at pitching (I stir the fermenter but also pour from the tap into a 5L demijohn...the pouring itself starts to aerate - like a mini double drop - then shake the hell out of the demijohn and pour from a height back into the main fermenter...repeat a few times), then maybe a bit of a stir the next morning if time/commitments permit, then double drop within 24 hours. Wy1084 is a fairly predictable animal that likes to work hard in the first few days...doing this method will almost guarantee a blowoff tube or new batch of glad wrap will be required.


Sorry for the O/T, but I do love this method and have indeed thought about doing it with other ales, but with my regular brews it would probably be overkill (given,as per the link, that it tends to produce certain yeast characteristics that may not always be desirable). Just my results, YMMMV :icon_cheers:

 

[[email protected]]

To try to answer the OP.

Here is a paper that someone did on aerating boiled and cooled water to simulate the different aeration methods using air pumps with/without stones and shaking the plastic bucket method. They didn't do any comparison to pure O2.

In essence the shake the bucket method is effective reaching a plateau at around 10 -15 minutes. System with high flow air stone reaches plateau in about 1/2 hour. See the graph.

As I generally use glass carboys I use an aquarium pump and 2 micron stone for 25-30 mins. I also splash the cube in through a funnel.

If I use plastic fementers I use the shake method for 10 mins.

Here is the full paper. Hope this helps.


View attachment AerationMethods.pdf

 

[1974Alby]

great article abc...Ive always just relied on transferring wort from cube to fermenter, with a lot of splashing in the pour...but having read that artice I will now include a rock/shake for about 5 minutes which gives over 90% saturation...the extra effort to shake beyond 5 min doesnt seem justified with only a slight increase in saturation for double or quadruple the time shaking.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Hooray for abc and actually answering the question!!!

One thing to note is that using a stone and pump for long periods can result in a lot of foam... foam which if you stop paying attention will come up out of the top of your fermentor, making a mess on the kitchen floor and causing spousal dissaproval.

I mainly shake my cold no-chill cubes and dump from a height, call it good enough - but I dont shake for 5 minutes, its too much work. If I do a double batch (twice as much work), or if I am planning to re-pitch the yeast (when initial oxygen becomes much more important) - I'll shake a little then throw in an airstone and use an AQ pump for half an hour or so.

One reason I like the AQ pump is that once its in there - there's no reason to take it out in any hurry. I'll pitch, put it in my ferm fridge and re-aerate a few times during the first 12-24 hours. Re-aerating is MUCH more effective for your yeast health and growth than high initial DO levels - its just hard to do if you have to move & open up your fermenter or do a transfer. I just flick the switch to the AQ pump for another 15mins every couple of hours. More than makes up for any potential lack in the initial DO levels.

 

[manticle]

I shake the cube, pitch in it, shake it again, then shake it when I remember for the first bit until I see krausen.

Responding to Thirsty, not answering the question as I've no experience with that pump (nor knowledge of it) and therefore couldn't hope to do so.

 

[fraser_john]

Airstone........................waste of time and money whilst significantly increasing infection risk

tnd

Phhhht, I guess this comment only applies if you are slack about your sanitation and cleaning routines?

 

[SJW]

Hooray for abc and actually answering the question!!!

One thing to note is that using a stone and pump for long periods can result in a lot of foam... foam which if you stop paying attention will come up out of the top of your fermentor, making a mess on the kitchen floor and causing spousal dissaproval.

I mainly shake my cold no-chill cubes and dump from a height, call it good enough - but I dont shake for 5 minutes, its too much work. If I do a double batch (twice as much work), or if I am planning to re-pitch the yeast (when initial oxygen becomes much more important) - I'll shake a little then throw in an airstone and use an AQ pump for half an hour or so.

One reason I like the AQ pump is that once its in there - there's no reason to take it out in any hurry. I'll pitch, put it in my ferm fridge and re-aerate a few times during the first 12-24 hours. Re-aerating is MUCH more effective for your yeast health and growth than high initial DO levels - its just hard to do if you have to move & open up your fermenter or do a transfer. I just flick the switch to the AQ pump for another 15mins every couple of hours. More than makes up for any potential lack in the initial DO levels.

+1 Thirsty,
I agree with the effectivness of aerating wort as cold as possible.

 

[bradsbrew]

Bats, I have cleaned up your thread and left in the answers that are related to your question.

Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

I bought an airstone and fish tank pump from Ross originally but never used it, preferring other methods. I sold it eventually to Florian in my cleanout last October. Flo is a very approachable guy, maybe you could pm him and he can tell you how he got on.

 

[Florian]

I bought an airstone and fish tank pump from Ross originally but never used it, preferring other methods. I sold it eventually to Florian in my cleanout last October. Flo is a very approachable guy, maybe you could pm him and he can tell you how he got on.

Well, to be honest, I have used it a few times, but eventually the stone broke into pieces. I liked that I could just leave it in the wort and aerate several times, but I didn't like the cleaning part as the tube would fill up with wort when the pump was turned off and I was paranoid about nasties settling in the tube.

I now have an O2 bottle and reg and use it together with a stainless steel aeration wand which works a treat. Since using that my beers ferment out the extra couple of points they were always missing. Not that there was much wrong with my beers, but expected FG and reality are now closer together.

EDIT: Oh, and Bribie, I got the pump from you well before your big clean out, think I've had it close to a year now.

:icon_offtopic:
2nd edit: Brad, mate, I reckon you went a little bit overboard there with your cleanup. I agree there was lots of crap in there, but you also deleted some good info (even if not 100% 'correct') and valid discussion which I personally think makes a forum. I know others might disagree with me though.

 

[bradsbrew]

:icon_offtopic:
2nd edit: Brad, mate, I reckon you went a little bit overboard there with your cleanup. I agree there was lots of crap in there, but you also deleted some good info (even if not 100% 'correct') and valid discussion which I personally think makes a forum. I know others might disagree with me though.

You are right a couple of good posts did get lost in the traffic! I have adjusted accordingly.

Cheers

 

[Wolfy]

One thing to note is that using a stone and pump for long periods can result in a lot of foam... foam which if you stop paying attention will come up out of the top of your fermentor, making a mess on the kitchen floor and causing spousal dissaproval.

I recall reading somewhere that someone suggested that that excessive foaming might not be a good thing?
(and not just due to spousal disapproval)

 

[Yob]

I recall reading somewhere that someone suggested that that excessive foaming might not be a good thing?

been listening to THE BN - Aeration podcast this morning and they talk about head forming protiens that only activate once, so by creating excessive foaming through aeration may adversly affect the head forming / retention properties of the beer.

Yob

 

[Parks]

I now have an O2 bottle and reg and use it together with a stainless steel aeration wand which works a treat. Since using that my beers ferment out the extra couple of points they were always missing. Not that there was much wrong with my beers, but expected FG and reality are now closer together.

Where did you get it from and roughly how much? Certainly wouldn't mind looking into O2 myself...

 

[fraser_john]

Where did you get it from and roughly how much? Certainly wouldn't mind looking into O2 myself...

Try a search using the search tool on the menu bar +oxygen +bernzomatic +bunnings yields ta da

 

[Parks]

Try a search using the search tool on the menu bar +oxygen +bernzomatic +bunnings yields ta da

Cheers mate, I actually did after posting and found some good info. I know I've searched in the past and hadn't found too much good info so I kinda got lazy...

 

[bignath]

Does anyone reckon there is a difference in aeration effectiveness due to splashing with different pouring speeds?

Reason i ask is that i have started really slowing down how fast i pour my cube into the fermenter, preffering to reasonably slowly and have noticed a decrease in lagtime.

Standard procedure for me currently, is dry yeast packet sprinkled into bottom of fermenter, and slowly pour cube on top of it. I get a good 8-10 inches of froth doing this, and in most scenarios my fermentation is underway in 6 hours. 12 hours at the most. No starter, no rehydrating, too easy, and a real clean and fast ferment.

 

[Florian]

Where did you get it from and roughly how much? Certainly wouldn't mind looking into O2 myself...

From a pm I sent to whatshisscreenname today:

Hi Steve,

I got the reg and stone from morebeer.com in the US, currently no aussie seller has these in stock. Nev (Gryphon brewing) used to sell them, so maybe give him a shout if you don't want to buy from the US ($35 postage).

I use the benzomatic O2 bottles, Masters sells them for $29 and they hold 59g of O2. I know Bunnings can order them in for you if you don't have a masters near you.

Hope that helps, let me know if you need anything else.

Cheers,

Florian

EDIT: SJW

 

[Florian]

Another thing to add, which might help you as well, Nath:

Before oxygenating I also used one of these (SFW).
I mostly no chilled in cubes without tap, when ready to pitch I just turned the cube on it's side, unscrewed the bung and inserted a tap with a piece of hose and the linked contraption, then let the wort spray into the fermenter.

The easier option would be to just no chill with the tap already attached, not sure why I never did that.

Nowadays I just no chill with tap, open the lid and insert stainless oxygenation wand, pitch, ferment, gravity filter to keg beer out and carbonate. Too easy.