Immersion Heaters

[boybrewer]

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[manticle]

Stupid question alert:

How do I earth my HLT so it isn't live? Aluminium pot full of water, brass tap and thread = bbbzzzzzztttttt

 

[Siborg]

Stupid question alert:

How do I earth my HLT so it isn't live? Aluminium pot full of water, brass tap and thread = bbbzzzzzztttttt

Run a cable from a part of the HLT to a plumbed pipe?

 

[manticle]

Should this be necessary? I asked beer belly if I was doing something wrong - he's of the opinion the unit is faulty and is happy to replace it.

 

[mintsauce]

I actually missed my mash temp by quite a bit on the weekend and resorted to stirring the mash with this - worked really well, perhaps someone can let us know why it would not be a good idea. I too just held by the plastic and within minutes the 40 litre mash was back up to correct temps (we purposely overshot the top layer by 2 degrees then mixed and got pretty much spot on - from 60 start point, was a very cold day)

I plan to try mounting to a stirring rod or something so I can do all the way if/when required.

 

[Rodolphe01]

I think the concern is that the element isn't mounted in the plastic housing to take into account the force of stiring a thick sludge like your mash. If the element works loose, water/mash/wort gets in and goes zap. Probably better off (if you need to) sticking in the element and stiring the mash with a rod/paddle rather than fixing the element on a stiring rod or similar. Or you could just hit your srtike temp

 

[Jim Botla]

I've been using an immersion element to heat my HLT for over 3 years and have often thought how difficult things would be without it. This looks like a great opportunity to get a spare at a really good price.

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[jbirbeck]

Should this be necessary? I asked beer belly if I was doing something wrong - he's of the opinion the unit is faulty and is happy to replace it.

I had the same problem with the one I tested on the weekend...and I'm too bloody scared to test the other one as I'm still nervous just touching my stand...even without one of these things hooked up. can I earth it safely or should I chuck it in the bin?

Stupid question alert:

How do I earth my HLT so it isn't live? Aluminium pot full of water, brass tap and thread = bbbzzzzzztttttt

This hurts...had tingly fingers for the rest of the day. I was lucky only brush against the stand.

 

[brettprevans]

Im sorry but feel obliged . I think there is a real safety issue with these devices.

if these units arent earthed then your all fkn crazy for using them. submerging units not designed to be submerged in liquid (regardless of whether they are coming from china) is just insane. I also have severe difficulty beleiving its food grade plastic. why would it be? no electrical element is designed to have the junction submerged in liquid, so why would they make the plastic food grade?

if you blokes want to submerge plastic into hot wort, and that plastic has live current going through it your nuts. how lethalcorpse hasnt blow his stack on this i dont know. esp you blokes that dont have modern mains boards and no RCDs. 2400w @ 10amp can kill you. hell just 0.1amp with AC can stop your heart.

most of you would be better off buying a stainless steel element thats 20cm long so the electrical junction goes no where near your wort. you can buy them on ebay for $50.

now if your happy with them. great. I dont begrudge beerbelly for having a business. but i do worry about someone getting hurt with these. Happy to stand corrected by a sparky. in fact id prefer to be corrected rather than be correct.

edit: my message is just be careful.

 

[OLDS2006]

My oldman the sparky, believes over time the rubber handle will go hard and crack.

 

[WarmBeer]

Im sorry but feel obliged . I think there is a real safety issue with these devices.

if these units arent earthed then your all fkn crazy for using them. submerging units not designed to be submerged in liquid (regardless of whether they are coming from china) is just insane. I also have severe difficulty beleiving its food grade plastic. why would it be? no electrical element is designed to have the junction submerged in liquid, so why would they make the plastic food grade?

if you blokes want to submerge plastic into hot wort, and that plastic has live current going through it your nuts. how lethalcorpse hasnt blow his stack on this i dont know. esp you blokes that dont have modern mains boards and no RCDs. 2400w @ 10amp can kill you. hell just 0.1amp with AC can stop your heart.

most of you would be better off buying a stainless steel element thats 20cm long so the electrical junction goes no where near your wort. you can buy them on ebay for $50.

now if your happy with them. great. I dont begrudge beerbelly for having a business. but i do worry about someone getting hurt with these. Happy to stand corrected by a sparky. in fact id prefer to be corrected rather than be correct.

edit: my message is just be careful.

Disclaimer: Have bought one, haven't used it yet.

I would appreciate somebody on this forum with a little more technical know-how than myself to have a good look at these units to determine what we should and shouldn't do with them.

I was planning on hanging mine from a piece of wood above the boil pot, dangling with just the element part submersed. I have a 3-ring burner, which will maintain a nice boil, but wanted to cut some time off my wort ramp-up time.

My kettle is aluminium, and is not earthed. Have a fairly recent house, so most likely have an RCD in place (not 100% sure, but pretty confident)

Rather than heresay and conjecture, an experts opinion would make me feel much safer. Can't imagine SWMBO being too consoled at the funeral by the words "He died doing what he loved"

 

[manticle]

Im sorry but feel obliged . I think there is a real safety issue with these devices.

if these units arent earthed then your all fkn crazy for using them. submerging units not designed to be submerged in liquid (regardless of whether they are coming from china) is just insane. I also have severe difficulty beleiving its food grade plastic. why would it be? no electrical element is designed to have the junction submerged in liquid, so why would they make the plastic food grade?

if you blokes want to submerge plastic into hot wort, and that plastic has live current going through it your nuts. how lethalcorpse hasnt blow his stack on this i dont know. esp you blokes that dont have modern mains boards and no RCDs. 2400w @ 10amp can kill you. hell just 0.1amp with AC can stop your heart.

most of you would be better off buying a stainless steel element thats 20cm long so the electrical junction goes no where near your wort. you can buy them on ebay for $50.

now if your happy with them. great. I dont begrudge beerbelly for having a business. but i do worry about someone getting hurt with these. Happy to stand corrected by a sparky. in fact id prefer to be corrected rather than be correct.

edit: my message is just be careful.

the units themselves are supposedly earthed
Beer belly has suggested to me this issue is not typical of the units and has offered to replace mine. I will be getting mine checked by a qualified leccy before use though.

Mine gave me a shock with the coil submerged but the top of the element outside so definitely an issue with the wiring.

 

[raven19]

Im sorry but feel obliged . I think there is a real safety issue with these devices.

if these units arent earthed then your all fkn crazy for using them. submerging units not designed to be submerged in liquid (regardless of whether they are coming from china) is just insane. I also have severe difficulty beleiving its food grade plastic. why would it be? no electrical element is designed to have the junction submerged in liquid, so why would they make the plastic food grade?

if you blokes want to submerge plastic into hot wort, and that plastic has live current going through it your nuts. how lethalcorpse hasnt blow his stack on this i dont know. esp you blokes that dont have modern mains boards and no RCDs. 2400w @ 10amp can kill you. hell just 0.1amp with AC can stop your heart.

most of you would be better off buying a stainless steel element thats 20cm long so the electrical junction goes no where near your wort. you can buy them on ebay for $50.

now if your happy with them. great. I dont begrudge beerbelly for having a business. but i do worry about someone getting hurt with these. Happy to stand corrected by a sparky. in fact id prefer to be corrected rather than be correct.

edit: my message is just be careful.

Bloody good post CM2. Could not agree more.

Exercise safety here people please!

 

[bit]

Guys,

If you want safe electric immersion heater have a look at this one, page 13-5 (4108B - Nickel Alloy elements) and page 13-6. Electric cord is above the water. It is safe and reliable.

http://www.grimwoodheating.com.au/r111www/...s/section13.pdf

I paid mine around $90 (two years ago).

Beers,
~bit

 

[haysie]

Guys,

If you want safe electric immersion heater have a look at this one, page 13-5 (4108B - Nickel Alloy elements) and page 13-6. Electric cord is above the water. It is safe and reliable.

http://www.grimwoodheating.com.au/r111www/...s/section13.pdf

I paid mine around $90 (two years ago).

Beers,
~bit

Yeah I have two of them over the side grimwoods. *********....... burnt out/shorted due to stirring raising temps, cable gets soft etc etc.

Waiting for some more feedback from other users. My 2 bobs, is the black plastic smelly sheath is not withstanding the heat, therfeore allowing heat come moisture inside to the live n neutral, once they get warm n wobbly n touch... look out. I think there is an issue with wort boiling because of the 60 90 etc minutes.
No need to use mine other than ATM still trying to lose the smell. Bringing water to the boil, it tastes no good. I reckon their only good for raising/boiling water.

 

[manticle]

Yours is safe though haysie? No nasty surprises making your equipment live?

 

[haysie]

Yours is safe though haysie? No nasty surprises making your equipment live?

No, but. Its water, i throw it in then turn off at the point once it reaches and maintains boil,, so in fact i am not really coming in direct contact i.e stirring. In a nutshell ...farrked if i know. I boiled up in my stainless 19ltr bowl twice then a third in my kettle with about 10 ltrs. It still stinks but didnt shock me or did i notice anything unusual? no. It still stinks and is sitting in a bleach mix with all those black flies that bleach atttracts.

 

[LethalCorpse]

It's quite simple. If the unit does not come with a C-tick, it's illegal to sell it in Australia. Are they being sold cheap because they have Chinese packaging? Or are they being sold cheap because they haven't been tested by an approved lab to Australian standards, and had all the appropriate certification and licensing done? Worse still, is it because they failed that testing?

Next up, what plastics are used? Are they rated to boiling temperature - the potential cracking/failing issue becomes a problem here. If they were certified, they would be rated to boiling, or include a thermostat to limit the temp to their rated temp. Are they food safe? Probably not. I don't like copper elements in a stainless kettle, but refer to countless other threads for my proselytising on that subject.

The earthing issue is a massive concern. If one unit, faulty or otherwise, is passing current to the chassis, it makes the whole lot decidedly suspect. It simply shouldn't do that. Now for anything like this you should ALWAYS be protected by an RCD (if you don't have one on your brew shed power circuit, call a sparky tomorrow. No, really. I mean it). And an RCD shouldn't allow what manticle is seeing. Your kettle should definitely be earthed, either to fixed plumbing or through your mains wiring - again, talk to a sparky

I haven't personally inspected this particular product, I can not comment on its safety or suitability for purpose, and I don't know whether it has the appropriate certification - if it does, there is no issue. In general terms, though, I can say that if you sell a product in Australia without the appropriate certification, you are at very least liable for some massive fines, whether you're the wholesaler or onselling them (yes, even if you're not making a profit). I can also say that if you use a product without the appropriate certification, you are taking a large, unnecessary risk - with your own life, the lives of everyone around you, the safety of your home and property etc. You're also risking some hefty fines yourself.

EDIT: left my brain at work. A-tick not required unless you're going to plug it into the phone network (if you are, I don't want to know why). Electrical safety requirements vary state-by-state, for further information, go here

 

[bit]

I normally boil around 33 liters of wort for approximately 90 mintes.

Soak immersion heater into white winegar for few days and it good as new.
Reinforced my 4108B with electrical insulation tape and don't have issues with soft cable.

~
bit

Yeah I have two of them over the side grimwoods. *********....... burnt out/shorted due to stirring raising temps, cable gets soft etc etc.

Waiting for some more feedback from other users. My 2 bobs, is the black plastic smelly sheath is not withstanding the heat, therfeore allowing heat come moisture inside to the live n neutral, once they get warm n wobbly n touch... look out. I think there is an issue with wort boiling because of the 60 90 etc minutes.
No need to use mine other than ATM still trying to lose the smell. Bringing water to the boil, it tastes no good. I reckon their only good for raising/boiling water.

 

[boybrewer]

All I wanted to do is help the brewing community with a product that works well and I know for I have been using these heaters for over the past 12 mths . If you feel that you are in danger of electrocution then don't buy them . In actual fact these units have done me proud for I have had 3 ( Three ) prize winning beers using these heaters . In fact what I am going to do now is end this bulk buy right here and right now . Finito .


Cheers
Beerbelly

 

[haysie]

All I wanted to do is help the brewing community with a product that works well and I know for I have been using these heaters for over the past 12 mths . If you feel that you are in danger of electrocution then don't buy them . In actual fact these units have done me proud for I have had 3 ( Three ) prize winning beers using these heaters . In fact what I am going to do now is end this bulk buy right here and right now . Finito .


Cheers
Beerbelly

I dont think anybody is questioning your integrity Mike. There are obvious issues that some guys have experienced and walking away isnt going to help matters.

 

[manticle]

As above. You've been a pleasure to deal with on the retail side of things - quick posting, responsive etc. Electrocution is a real issue though - not something that could be ignored or forgotten especially not when actually experienced.

Don't take it personally.

 

[brettprevans]

sorry BeerBelly i certainly wasnt implying that you were intentionally doing anything wrong/harm. & I should have PMd you out of courtesy to let you know i was making that post.

I have been zapped enough from dodgy wiring (even from qualified sparkies) and running that much power through a unit submersed in liquid, if its not up to grade, is just dangerous. it was a warning. thats all. nothing against you. im sure the units provide heat through a coil and you can use them to make great beer. but the potential danger.... Its one area i didnt skimp on in my brewery. couple hundred bucks on a commercial element and housing, and installed/wired by a sparky (actually i had to fix the sparky's wiring cause he's a nuff, but thats not the point).

and the units might be ok if they arent submerged in liquid (unless they arent earthed properly). but it might also be possible that the units are like this chinese welding mask

 

[CDJ]

Received mine yesterday. Thanks beerbelly.

Will use it on my HLT but due to the concerns raised here I will also have it checked before first use.

CDJ

 

[domonsura]

This afternoon, I received a second enquiry at the Beerbelly shop about the 'immersion element bulk buy I was running on AHB'.

I wish to clarify for those who may not be aware reading this thread, that this bulk buy & the person with the current AHB username 'beer_belly' does not have, nor has ever had any association whatsoever with my business 'Beerbelly Brewing Equipment' here in South Australia or anywhere else.
(Please note: as far as I know he has not claimed he does have any association, just to make that clear as well, this post is to prevent confusion only, he's not done anything wrong and I am making no comment at all on the elements he is offering.)

The only immersion elements we have ever sold at the shop are much longer stemmed with different element finish & construction as per our website images.

Any enquiries about these particular elements offered in this bulk buy will need to be directed to the person running this buy, and cannot be answered by Amanda or I @ Beerbelly.

cheers
Wayne
Beerbelly Brewing Equipment

 

[WarmBeer]

Used my immersion heater for the first time on the weekend, after giving it a good soak in bleach solution to get rid of the kerosene smell.

Worked brilliantly. Used it in conjunction with my usual burner (burner underneath, immersion heater hanging from a wooden stick over the top) and it reduced my time to get to boil from over 30 mins to under 10 mins after the 2nd sparge.

And yes, I did touch the pot, so no problems there <_<

Thanks again Beerbelly.

 

[ekul]

I've been meaning to ask this. When you soak it, do you soak the element as well? I was thinking the bleach would corrode the element. Does this happen?

Used my immersion heater for the first time on the weekend, after giving it a good soak in bleach solution to get rid of the kerosene smell.

Worked brilliantly. Used it in conjunction with my usual burner (burner underneath, immersion heater hanging from a wooden stick over the top) and it reduced my time to get to boil from over 30 mins to under 10 mins after the 2nd sparge.

And yes, I did touch the pot, so no problems there <_<

Thanks again Beerbelly.

 

[Siborg]

Used my immersion heater for the first time on the weekend, after giving it a good soak in bleach solution to get rid of the kerosene smell.

Worked brilliantly. Used it in conjunction with my usual burner (burner underneath, immersion heater hanging from a wooden stick over the top) and it reduced my time to get to boil from over 30 mins to under 10 mins after the 2nd sparge.

And yes, I did touch the pot, so no problems there <_<

Thanks again Beerbelly.

I've been a slacker and haven't soaked mine, nor had a chance to use it. How well did the bleach solution work? What concentration did you use?

 

[WarmBeer]

I've been meaning to ask this. When you soak it, do you soak the element as well? I was thinking the bleach would corrode the element. Does this happen?

I hadn't thought of that, but evidence shows that, no the bleach did not corrode the element at all. I just chucked the whole thing in a bucket.

I've been a slacker and haven't soaked mine, nor had a chance to use it. How well did the bleach solution work? What concentration did you use?

I scientifically measured out a metric splash of laundry bleach mixed into a calibrated half bucket of tap water. I probably should have gone a bit stronger, as you can still smell it if you hold the cord up to your nose, but I have just been suspending the element part of the heater in the wort by dangling from a wooden stick over the top of my pot.

 

[Siborg]

I hadn't thought of that, but evidence shows that, no the bleach did not corrode the element at all. I just chucked the whole thing in a bucket.




I scientifically measured out a metric splash of laundry bleach mixed into a calibrated half bucket of tap water. I probably should have gone a bit stronger, as you can still smell it if you hold the cord up to your nose, but I have just been suspending the element part of the heater in the wort by dangling from a wooden stick over the top of my pot.

So that would equate to 1.10334mMol^3 of bleach in a 4.45795L solution?

That's what I've done with my one from the last delivery (hanging over wooden stick). Got one of the test orders a while back and there wasn't any smell. Will have to soak the new one from the latest delivery, though.

Looking forward to using them now, the one was great, but two will cut the heating/boiling time down significantly.