Immersion Heaters

[haysie]

Soaked mine, boiled in plain water, the smell is still well n truely present in the black electrical cable, not that you want that in your wort.
Crayfishing with the lads last weekend up the Goulbourne and decided for the cray pot (half a keg) i would take the element and give it a run, we had power etc etc.
About one hour into the bouil with the pot full of lemons salt and crays, she blew and blow she did, volcanoes in the pot, luckily my bro in-law grabbed the extension and disconnected, it looked like that water was live :blink: , after the volcano settled all the black stinking plastic came to the top of the broth.
After inspection the white sealed part had been penetrated and simply blew.
We saved the crays by tipping the broth and giving them a fresh one this time with a wood fired heat.

My experience = crazy and at the very least after people were getting zapped money back should have been offered.
I have been one for advocating Bulk Buys back on to the latest threads where it used to be. Having experienced first hand this one I can understand why they are out the back door like they are. It would be an absolute tragedy, shoyuld someone be injured or worse by this rubbish.

Haysie

 

[mintsauce]

I think with normal bulk buys it's all in for a bit of a risk but this one is a little different since he bought them all in bulk and is trying to on-sell them.

 

[haysie]

I think with normal bulk buys it's all in for a bit of a risk but this one is a little different since he bought them all in bulk and is trying to on-sell them.

Not quite sure what you are saying MS?
Without editing my previous i will add, I had 2 of these heaters, 1 i won in a raffle the other i purchased like the other AHB`ers, the 2nd unused has had its cord cut off and sits with blown out #1 on the hard rubbish pile.

These things are obviously very dangerous and for $50, I feel a hell of a lot safer getting rid of it.

 

[mintsauce]

Sorry I also think the bulk buys should be on the "Lastest Threads" thing, but I think for example the yeast buy at the moment - if it does get stopped by AQIS then I would not expect money back to be offered, everyone is equally informed and at risk.


All I was saying is this one was a little different, it was not "lets all chuck in and order from china and get these things cheap" it's one guy who's bought 50 and has them now to sell....

 

[haysie]

Sorry I also think the bulk buys should be on the "Lastest Threads" thing, but I think for example the yeast buy at the moment - if it does get stopped by AQIS then I would not expect money back to be offered, everyone is equally informed and at risk.


All I was saying is this one was a little different, it was not "lets all chuck in and order from china and get these things cheap" it's one guy who's bought 50 and has them now to sell....

Exactly MS, theres bulk buys then there are bandits. Too post up the Finito comment! :angry:........ Walk away = A$$hole...

 

[WSC]

Soaked mine, boiled in plain water, the smell is still well n truely present in the black electrical cable, not that you want that in your wort.
Crayfishing with the lads last weekend up the Goulbourne and decided for the cray pot (half a keg) i would take the element and give it a run, we had power etc etc.
About one hour into the bouil with the pot full of lemons salt and crays, she blew and blow she did, volcanoes in the pot, luckily my bro in-law grabbed the extension and disconnected, it looked like that water was live :blink: , after the volcano settled all the black stinking plastic came to the top of the broth.
After inspection the white sealed part had been penetrated and simply blew.
We saved the crays by tipping the broth and giving them a fresh one this time with a wood fired heat.

My experience = crazy and at the very least after people were getting zapped money back should have been offered.
I have been one for advocating Bulk Buys back on to the latest threads where it used to be. Having experienced first hand this one I can understand why they are out the back door like they are. It would be an absolute tragedy, shoyuld someone be injured or worse by this rubbish.

Haysie

This freaks me out. I have a safety switch etc in my shed. For the $100 I spent on these I don't want to waste my money but I also don't want to die brewing a batch of freakin beer.

I will get a sparky to check mine before using.

For the record I think Beerbelly had good intentions, but I guess this is why we have regulations and standards on this type of stuff.

 

[roller997]

Here is my experience.
I soaked mine for a couple of days in a vinegar solution to try to remove the kerosene smell and after some of the reports I checked with an Ohm meter if the water made contact with the live & neutral wires, indicated by 0 (or close to 0) Ohms of resistance.
Unfortunately with both elements the water was able to penetrate the white plastic casing. This could cause a metal pot to become live and it would explain the experience Haysie was having.

With that in mind, I suspect the plastic housing is not fully water proof and depending on how well it was crimped / plastic welded at the time, how dense the liquid is you are submerging the housing into and how far into the liquid you submerge it eventually it is likely to cause the liquid to reach the live and / or neutral wires. It might work fine for 1,10 or 100 brews however if you left it long enough or if it has been used often enough to cause the plastic casing to eventually leak it will make heating liquid with a metal pot a potentially hazardous exercise.

I have seen beerbelly use these elements successfully for some time now while fully submerging them in water that was being heated in a plastic vessel. He also demonstrated one of these elements in a metal pot when I picked mine up, so I don't believe that he had experienced any issues in the past which would lead him to believe that these were dangerous.

I can't see this being much different from another bulk buy with the only exception being that one person took the initial risk to buying them in bulk as he would have had to pay for them before he received them.
Similar to quite a few folks, I was quick to jump onboard in buying a couple of these elements as they seemed great value for money. It seems that I should have waited a while to see what the general feedback was before taking the plunge but then I might have worried that I might miss out on a bargain.

While it cost me 2 * $50 for my elements I won't be using in the future, I have taken this as a lesson not to buy ANY electrical items that were made in China without local testing & approval having taken place.

What would be interesting is to get some of the characters on the box translated to see if the red markings on the box were actual warnings.... I still have one box and if someone knows a person able to read chinese who could translate it for us I am happy to scan it in and email the image.

I suspect if you only immerse the metal part of the element you will be fine. The challenge is that as the wort evaporates you will have to lower it continually to ensure that the metal coil is submerged.
Since I don't like the idea of dangling something above water / wort connected to mains power which could fall in and "liven" my pot up, I have decided not to use them.


Roller

Edit - Gramatical correction

 

[Rodolphe01]

I thought I'd chime also after getting no response from the seller.

In my opinion, if you have one, cut the cord, cut your losses, and chuck it out.

Of most concern, the one I have set the pot live and it gave me a tingle, not a full zap (Ive had one or two of those a few years ago). Rather than just chucking it out I thought Id earth the pot, this worked well and I was happy again. However, I used it a few times just to heat water to try and get rid of that damn smell and it started tripping my safety switch (as already mentioned, for gods sake get one if you don't have one, also, even with a safety switch you still get hell of a jolt, this I know from experience). It is important to note that it trips my safety switch without fully submerging it with only the metal part in and at least 10mm clear of the plastic, I was never comfortable submerging it anyway. In the name of trying to work stuff out (Im just not satisfied unless I try), I tried it again without earthing the pot. To no great surprise it didnt trip the safety switch, this means that the element, despite having an earth pin, is not actually earthed (safety switch only works on earthed devices by detecting current leak to earth, I think, happy to be corrected).

Other concerns over this device include the just plain nasty stench of the cord which I never managed to get rid of. I wasn't too concerned about the smell as I was never going to submerge it. I only made 1 batch of beer with this element, it is due for tasting this week... Hopefully steam condensing on the cord and then dripping back into the wort didn't taint it. It had a harsh resin-like bitterness straight from the fermenter which might be from the galaxy hops, Ive never used galaxy before, but I have had similar resin type bitterness from nelson sauvin out of the fermenter heres hoping. If I get the slightest hint of taint from it I will tip it, god knows what it is. And if I have to tip a whole batch Ill be seriously pissed, I basically have to take a day off work to brew, so if I lose a batch, I also lose a whole lot of time and the cost of ingredients basically becomes inconsequential.

Another thing that happened to my element was corrosion. It has pitted in various locations and has rusty patches. When you wipe it with your hand you get orange rust smears on your skin. Not exactly what you want in your beer, and god knows what heavy metals etc are leaching into the wort along with the rust.

I'm pretty pissed off, but I don't think beerbelly was malicious - he's probably been stung like the rest of us with inferior Chinese shit. Perhaps the elements hes been using are from a different manufacturing batch that wasnt dodgy. There is a certain amount of risk in buying things like this in bulk buys etc, there's no recourse, no warranty etc. It's for this reason bulk buys don't get listed on the recent topics list and there's a massive red disclaimer... Incidentally this is all after another inferior Chinese bulk buy.

I think there is enough anecdotal evidence in this thread to suggest that anyone using one should seriously consider cease using it. A few people have mentioned getting a sparky to check theirs out, the cost of this is surely greater than just getting a trusted immersion element. Also, having a sparky check that it is OK doesnt necessarily protect you from degradation due to crappy manufacturing, case in point, mine worked fine to begin with.

So to wrap up this rant/post Im pretty nutty for using clichs, so heres one to consider: What would you do, or how would you explain to your wife/partner, that your child died because they walked past and touched your kettle? Especially if you knew or had knowledge that it might be a bit dodgy, and that it was just a $50 loss to bin it and have prevented the tragedy? I dont want to sound dramatic, but I have 2 young kids and that is exactly what I considered when I thought for a nanosecond that I could just use it unearthed. My other real concern is for the blokes out there who have one of these elements, dont have a safety switch, and havent checked this thread since buying.

 

[mxd]

To no great surprise it didn't trip the safety switch, this means that the element, despite having an earth pin, is not actually earthed (safety switch only works on earthed devices by detecting current leak to earth, I think, happy to be corrected).

They refer to it as earth leakage but it works by tripping the safety switch when the current is not balanced (between neutral and active), so therfore the delta must be going to earth.

This one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Home-Portable-Saving-E...ccessoriesParts) says not to place into steel pot ??

 

[Rodolphe01]

Interesting you linked to that one mxd, I saw them a few weeks ago, looks very similar in construction to the ones from this bulk buy, just longer coil. The comment about not to use in a metal pot just confirms to me that they are all duds.