Hops for saison/farmhouse

[bradmccoy]

What hops do you like to use in saisons? Am thinking of brewing one with pilsner malt and some special b, using the danstar dry saison yeast. Any thoughts?

 

[Bats]

Styrian Goldings is usually the preferred option for this style.

I'm a creature of habbit and have only used this hop but interested to see what others have used.

The danstar saison yeast is a great dry yeast. Liquid yeast is always better but this yeast can get pretty damn close.

 

[JaseH]

Used Styrian, Saaz, and Hallertau M. in one I do and works well. Not sure how the Special B will go, Saisons traditionaly are light malts and maybe some wheat for a bit of tartness.

 

[bradmccoy]

Frothie, what sort of grain bill do you usually use? I thought a touch of special b might give it a bit of complexity.

 

[WarmBeer]

My first ever Saison was brewed with Perle @ 60 mins, 15 mins and 0 mins.

Recipe was very basic, 33% Pils, 33% Vienna, 33% Wheat malt. Belle Saison dry yeast, rehydrated as per the manufacturers instructions. Fermented at 25 degrees.

Quite possibly the best beer I've brewed.

Saison is all about the yeast, not the hops. Give is a nice, lightly hopped, slightly malty backbone, and let those esters shine through.

 

[manticle]

Noble or something like styrian. I like hallertauer mittelfruh for a slight zesty lemon hit that complements the spicy yeast.

 

[JaseH]

This is my regular Saison recipe:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Saison De Jaison
Brewer: Jase
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 27.00 l
Bottling Volume: 26.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 69.8 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.80 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 1 74.5 %
1.20 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 Grain 2 23.5 %
0.10 kg Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC) Grain 3 2.0 %
60.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.40 %] - Boil 40.0 mi Hop 4 18.8 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
30.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.60 %] - Boil Hop 6 7.2 IBUs
20.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 8 -
28.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Farmhouse Ale (Wyeast Labs #3726PC) [124 Yeast 10 -

Saison's are all about the yeast.

 

[bradmccoy]

Cool, thanks. Looks good to me. Wouldn't special b and melanoidin essentialpy contribute the same sort of thing - a slight malt-sweet edge?

 

[bradmccoy]

Looks like Styrian is the winner at this stage.

 

[manticle]

Melanoiden is supposed to replicate the results of decoction, (bready/breadcrust/toast), spec b is a raisiny sweet crystal.

Personally I prefer continental pils with a touch of wheat, step mashed.

 

[JaseH]

Special B is better suited to darker style ales - ie. Dubbels. It can add more plum/raisin type characters as well as color - to keep your Saison to style you want it light golden/straw color. Rules are there to be broken but traditionally for a saison think summer, dry, refreshing, tart ale with some spice.

 

[OzPaleAle]

I have been using this guide for hop inspirations. They have a yeast guide for different styles also with descriptions of each.

http://byo.com/resources/hops

 

[Charst]

Ive done a couple using only Hallertau M, 90% pils 10% wheat and i think its a lovely beer, not lacking anything..

I recently did the Saison Vautour clone from BYO's american Saison article and it came out quite well.


76% Wey Bo Pils
17% Wey Rye
7% home made candi sugar.

IBU 26
Ger Hallertau @60, @15 and @5
Willamette @ 15
EKG @ 5.
no chill

 

[brewtas]

As a few guys have mentioned, additions of 10-15% of wheat or rye are good options. Spelt or oat malt can also be nice. For hops you're pretty free but I definitely prefer European hops over Americans in a Saison. Hallertau and Styrian Goldings are my defaults but EKG and Saaz are also worth a try.

 

[boonchu]

Normally
Hallertau @ 60
Saaz @15
Styrian dry hopped

Have also used Sorachi ace as a single hop with bitter orange and black pepper.
Worked very well

 

[Pickaxe]

Love to try sorachi ace or motueka for my first. Made a lovely snuggle hopped motueka ale, like the idea of crisp, spicy and peppery with that hop.
Anyone tried motueka?

 

[Pickaxe]

Single, not snuggle, ******* phone.

Sounds like a wiggles signature ale, "snuggle hopped".

 

[mje1980]

Melanoiden is supposed to replicate the results of decoction, (bready/breadcrust/toast), spec b is a raisiny sweet crystal.

Personally I prefer continental pils with a touch of wheat, step mashed.

Any particular schedule manticle?. I have a few packs of belle saison and some dingemans pils coming. I was thinking of just doing a long low 60's then short low 70's. Not sure about protein rest though as I'm using a small percentage if raw wheat and flaked barley (5% each ).

I've only tried the belle saison once. In a dry Irish stout. Best stout I've ever made, and a great beer.

 

[manticle]

For me it's similar to others - I just vary the rests a touch.

55/62/67/72/78
5/15/45/10/10

I mainly use 3711 and run it pretty warm so attenuation and dryness isn't a problem with 15 mins in the low 60s. Going to hit 1006 or lower no drama, dry finish but still enough body to give it life.

 

[mje1980]

Tah mate.

 

[bradmccoy]

Just came across this:

"Prairie Artisan Ales - 'Merica Saison Review" http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/11/prairie-artisan-ales-merica-saison.html

Nelson S in a saison. Wouldn't mind trying it.

 

[Charst]

Not tried any New World Hops in a saison purely because i haven't been through enough of the traditionally used noble hops in saisons to warrant it.
Saisons are meant to have some wine like characteristics so i can see how NS could go well.

That said i would use it carefully and not over hop. You want it to be a component of the beer, and high AA hops can easily dominate.

trying it is the only way to find out though.

 

[seamad]

I've used calypso for a few with 3711 and they go together pretty well.

 

[mje1980]

I tried calypso in y first saison. Supposed to add pear but I only lightly hopped it. Certainly lemon but I think that's the belle saison. I have another cube of saison in which I added a lot more calypso later in the boil. Hope to taste around Christmas.

 

[bradmccoy]

Awesome. Let us know how your second lot goes. I've never used Calypso in anything. Will have to check it out.

 

[bradmccoy]

Not tried any New World Hops in a saison purely because i haven't been through enough of the traditionally used noble hops in saisons to warrant it.
Saisons are meant to have some wine like characteristics so i can see how NS could go well.

That said i would use it carefully and not over hop. You want it to be a component of the beer, and high AA hops can easily dominate.

trying it is the only way to find out though.

The beer linked above is 7.something ABV. So I assume it has plenty of malt to hold the hops up. But then, to what extent this allows the yeast to stand out, I don't know.

 

[jlm]

NS in a saison is awesome. I've brewed a few with it now. An over the top commercial version is 8 Wired's Sauvin Saison which is more like a NS IPA fermented with a saison yeast (assuming Dupont is your yardstick, she's a varied style for sure....) and is an excellent beer. But with the character that a saison yeast throws you can throw quite a bit at it late and not be too worried about it dominating the beer. Within reason of course.

 

[DJR]

I bittered my Saison with Sorachi Ace and finished with US Saaz... time will tell in the bottle if it's any good, but the lemony taste of the Sorachi was definitely there, I wouldn't use it much as a late hop though, would end up with the bad end of the Sorachi spectrum (lemon dishwash)

 

[Pickaxe]

Been curious about sorachi ace. So is that a general thing that sorachi is lemony late- too much so?

pickaxe

 

[mje1980]

Awesome. Let us know how your second lot goes. I've never used Calypso in anything. Will have to check it out.

Drinking my second saison with calypso. I used much more late this time. I can't guarantee it's the hop, but it has a nice fruitiness in the back. It could be the yeast ( wy 3725 ), or a combo of yeast and calypso, but I think it's the calypso. Will definately use it again in saisons.